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Should I learn to wakeboard prior to kiteboarding? Would it help?

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Created by Guppyboy > 9 months ago, 6 Dec 2021
Guppyboy
2 posts
6 Dec 2021 6:04AM
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Hi All,

I have a trainer kite and I am learning to fly - hopefully will get some kiteboarding lessons in February.

Wondering if people think it would be beneficial to get a wakeboard lesson at the cable park and spend some hours learning how to control a board oat a cable park?

I have read things where people have said that because when wakeboarding you pull with your arms you will develop bad habits - what are thoughts on this? Would it be a good idea or would it be counter productive?

TIA

cbulota
WA, 1432 posts
6 Dec 2021 7:07AM
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Hi Guppyboy

2/3 lines foil Trainer kites can be counter productive especially if flown for countless hours through the power zone with a heavy hammer-style grip. We discuss this in details in our blog here: www.kitebud.com.au/kitesurfing-trainer-kite-yay-or-nay/

Many will tell you to fly a trainer kite as much as possible but this is outdated advice. Your time and money are better spent learning the proper habits from scratch with a competent instructor on a small 4-line inflatable kite with a harness.

Will wakeboarding help ? Maybe, maybe not. You'll often hear that kitesurfing is 80% kite control which is true. Board skills are a small part of the equation and can be learned gradually when you are ready for that stage. Just like the trainer kite, wakeboarding often brings bag habits which take more time to brake vs learning the proper habits from scratch.

You should also consider learning to kitesurf early in the season (October-November) If you start in February you will only have 2-3 months of practice before winter. Students who become kitesurfers are those who are putting in lots of practice time on a weekly basis after and in between lessons.

hope this helps

Christian - KiteBud

IanR
NSW, 1194 posts
6 Dec 2021 3:28PM
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My observation is yes and no
It may help in learning to get up on the board
But you really don't learn how to properly edge the board and go upwind

A guy at my local that I have been giving some advice to spent a far bit of time at the cable park this winter.
He finally went up wind yesterday after many sessions of long walks

Zigs
NSW, 66 posts
11 Dec 2021 9:14AM
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One of my friends has been wakeboarding for years, I gave him a go on my kite (he had flown trainer kites before and knew how everything works) took him about 15 minutes to be able to go upwind on a port tack, still struggling to go to starboard. I think his wakeboarding helped as he sort of already knew how to edge and stuff like that, wether that will be the case for everyone, I don't know

kitcho207
NSW, 861 posts
22 Dec 2021 10:08AM
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if your learning to wakeboard, you might as well use the time and money on kiting

OliviaMB
17 posts
30 Dec 2021 4:15PM
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It was suggested to me that I should go to a wake park when I was having trouble water starting. I had many, many attempts on the wakeboard cable and got absolutely no where because I couldn't handle the force of it. In hindsight, now that I can water start and even ride for a bit I think the cable park was probably counter-productive because the whole point of kiting is that you control the amount of power/force. Maybe it would be useful when you are more advanced and want to develop your board skills (I am definitely not at that point yet so can't speak to it) but I personally found it a waste of time as a beginner.

towradgi
NSW, 412 posts
31 Dec 2021 6:57PM
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Select to expand quote
OliviaMB said..
It was suggested to me that I should go to a wake park when I was having trouble water starting. I had many, many attempts on the wakeboard cable and got absolutely no where because I couldn't handle the force of it. In hindsight, now that I can water start and even ride for a bit I think the cable park was probably counter-productive because the whole point of kiting is that you control the amount of power/force. Maybe it would be useful when you are more advanced and want to develop your board skills (I am definitely not at that point yet so can't speak to it) but I personally found it a waste of time as a beginner.



How does a cable park help your waterstarts ? You are already standing up on the launch dock when you start ? You don't edge . When you fall off , you lose the cable , you don't relaunch ,you take off the boots and board and dog paddle to shoreline , walk back to dock for another attempt .

Dry
5 posts
1 Jan 2022 11:21AM
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I wakeboarded before I ever kited. I think it helped me learn to kite. If you can't stand up on a wakeboard you'll never be able to kite. I think it helps to be comfortable on a board, and being pulled out of the water. There's a lot to think about when learning to kite, having some competence at wakeboard water starts couldn't hurt your kiting.

longeng
NSW, 1 posts
1 Jan 2022 3:42PM
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If you haven't ever done anything on a board:
skate board
snow board
surf board
Wake board experience would probably give some confidence with a kite board. As someone else said there's a lot happening when you are trying to water start for the first time. The trainer kites I used when learning were just a vague introduction to the real thing. I'm thinking unless the trainer kite incorporates a harness so you had some exposure to the control of the power by pulling the bar in and out as on a real kite there is a limit to there worth. Keep up the lessons and try and hold the fear at bay.

FormulaNova
WA, 13434 posts
2 Jan 2022 8:49PM
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I found that when I was learning, I would get up on the board and then not know what to do. My kite skills were pretty good, but adding the board made it another thing to worry about. I had access to a wake-park, especially during winter, and it fixed that up in no time. I even preferred the wake-park sometimes. (Nice smooth, dead-flat water in the middle of winter.....)

Granted, cable-wakeboarding is a skill in itself, but it will teach you board control. The starts from the dock will teach you how to weight your board and unweight the front of it. You will also learn how to ride a board on both sides.

You 'can' go to a wake park and not learn how to edge, but its your fault if that's all you learn. Its much more fun to go around and carve nice big arcs and get those edging skills working. Turning teaches you good board control too and is harder on a wake board than it will be on a kiteboard with a kite. Then again, some kiteboarders don't do much other than go straight either.

Cable wakeboarding does put a lot of load on your arms and shoulders too, so don't assume you will take to it straight away or find it easy. It gets much better once you develop the muscles required, but initially hanging on is hard work.

towradgi
NSW, 412 posts
13 Jan 2022 4:07PM
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To people unfamilar with cableparks , this is the launch dock. Rope attached to overhead high cable that spins around whole pool horizontally , the rider is told to be ready for pull of rope when it is engaged to cable by operator .
So mush easier than a kitesurf launch .you are already up .
You ride the board flat goin straight , like downwind, maybe edging by zigzagging left and right between white jumping ramps....the guy with yellow helmet has fallen off ,let go of handle , floats to shore with board ,walks back to start .
You can edge on corners at each end of pool ,the cable park is similar layout to a racetrack . Cableparks are a really fun place to go to . Some beginners don't know how to deal with turning left at end of each straight and crash .


KPSS Used
NSW, 325 posts
Site Sponsor
27 Feb 2022 5:27PM
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Select to expand quote
cbulota said..
Hi Guppyboy

2/3 lines foil Trainer kites can be counter productive especially if flown for countless hours through the power zone with a heavy hammer-style grip. We discuss this in details in our blog here: www.kitebud.com.au/kitesurfing-trainer-kite-yay-or-nay/

Many will tell you to fly a trainer kite as much as possible but this is outdated advice. Your time and money are better spent learning the proper habits from scratch with a competent instructor on a small 4-line inflatable kite with a harness.

Will wakeboarding help ? Maybe, maybe not. You'll often hear that kitesurfing is 80% kite control which is true. Board skills are a small part of the equation and can be learned gradually when you are ready for that stage. Just like the trainer kite, wakeboarding often brings bag habits which take more time to brake vs learning the proper habits from scratch.

You should also consider learning to kitesurf early in the season (October-November) If you start in February you will only have 2-3 months of practice before winter. Students who become kitesurfers are those who are putting in lots of practice time on a weekly basis after and in between lessons.

hope this helps

Christian - KiteBud



Here we go again, Christian you are talking crap as evidenced by your own post above. The only reason you push this anti-trainer kite BS is you want (as the "competent" Instructor) to sell more lessons.
We see people all the time who have been sucked into your BS advice (although you are not alone) and they have terrible kite control and are constantly crashing their inflatable and then have difficulties and kitemares, many eventually abandon the sport because they just don't understand how the wind window works, how the wind varies in strength and direction, etc, etc.

In the very next paragraph you contradict yourself and acknowledge that kitesurfing is 80% kite control!!!!

Many of the worlds best race drivers started by learning to drive go karts, because F1 is 80%+ vehicle control.

The very sensible and logical advice to fly a trainer kite is not outdated at all, over the last 25 years the wind blows the same, kites fly the same, and to learn to kitesurf does still require at least 80% kite control skills.

And a few goes at the wakepark is definitely not wasted time.

RAL INN
VIC, 2872 posts
5 Dec 2022 11:55AM
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No matter what your background leading up to kiteboarding. You will still need to spend the same time learning how to kiteboard.
everyone is different and the same.
the time you spend trying to build kiteboarding skills in alternative source, may help. But not as quickly as learning on the real thing.

the journey to learning kiteboarding has a range of obstacles that have to be overcome. Some obstacles are easier for some than others but there is always one or two you crash into. but everyone usually gets to the end of the journey at a similar time.

1. get kiteboarding lessons
2. get to the stage you are up and going on board.
3. Then choose your gear, buy it and practice .
4. Get the odd coaching lesson to cut out any bad habits forming
that's the shortest most direct route.

psychojoe
WA, 1521 posts
5 Dec 2022 9:09PM
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I'ma go get some popcorn while I wait for Christians response to KPSS. Last time this happened Christian's response included broad empirical evidence leaving no space for opinions, I expect much the same again.
And in response to the question, wakeboards are fun, give it a go.

Xponti
WA, 24 posts
6 Dec 2022 12:22PM
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Select to expand quote
longeng said..
If you haven't ever done anything on a board:
skate board
snow board
surf board
Wake board experience would probably give some confidence with a kite board. As someone else said there's a lot happening when you are trying to water start for the first time. The trainer kites I used when learning were just a vague introduction to the real thing. I'm thinking unless the trainer kite incorporates a harness so you had some exposure to the control of the power by pulling the bar in and out as on a real kite there is a limit to there worth. Keep up the lessons and try and hold the fear at bay.


Gold advice right here. If you want to do something on a board before Kiteboarding, learn to surf. THAT will help you with board control, you can also pick up a cheap surf board that you can then use as a directional board while you are learning. (Although pure surf boards don't necessarily have the strength of a Kiting directional board due to the constant force put on a kiteboard v the minutes of force on a surf board).

And Christian is right, get lessons NOW! You then have the rest of the season to consolidate and practice. I started later in the season, and then by the time I was up and confident, the season was over and I had to wait until the following season.

timmybuddhadude
WA, 665 posts
8 Dec 2022 9:18PM
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Most definitely (wake boarding etc)..
But i wouldn't waste too much time on it if you can't or haven't done it already

Waterstarts was a complete piece of p#ss and easy after kite control
I mentally replaced the consistency of a running 50hp etc motor with the current knots of wind and kite size at 10 and 2 o'clock etc
It's exactly the same thing really...the boat moves you(or cable-park ski) at a certain speed..so does wind in knots complementing kitesize
V easy.so waterstarts and balance etc would be easy

This is going to be great loving the small argument here ..but wasn't expecting it..
a bit like the control freak secret spot salesman who turned up at my local 10 or 20yrs behind everyone else.. clogging it all up and suddenly thinking he's God of the place only interested in 'selling' that sounds a bit familiar

R.e trainers
To be honest when I learnt I just bought myself a 2m inflatable and guided myself I found those 2line bar things pointless after about 25minutes....but...
I believe for some who are pretty clueless about it they are useful
Each to themselves I guess whatever suits whoever it is is probably the best idea... ...so maybe they can still be useful..to some extent..

timmybuddhadude
WA, 665 posts
13 Dec 2022 8:01PM
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Oh come on Christian what's the excuse for not using 2line trainer kites anymore...if required...for some period... ??
Plllleeeeeaaaasssse
I really want to hear it

In anticipation... ......

weebitbreezy
588 posts
13 Dec 2022 8:47PM
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The argument against them used to be that it was wasted time. Because they aren't depower kites you don't learn the kite control muscle memory - sure steering is there but not sheeting the bar - same as with 4 line buggy kites on handles. Sure an experienced kite flyer can convert but why bother learning the wrong thing to convert later.

You also needed close to the same amount of wind to make them worthwhile anyway so if you are going to the beach to fly a 2 line trainer kite you might as well be going to the beach to fly a kitesurfing kite (you still need something like 10-11knots of wind to keep it in the air)

I've got one from decades ago and beyond making a quieter sound when you crash it into the sand it isn't really any better than an old LEI. I've had a few nephews and nieces fly it and they don't trust kitekillers so are more reluctant to let go of the bar if they make a mistake so they still get dragged down the beach when they accidentally loop the kite (top tip - take a flask of water so they can wash the sand out their mouths).

I'm personally in the - Yes - to learning wakeboarding because learning to kite in less than 15knots is a rubbish experience and you'd have more fun at a cable park. A few wakeboard sessions learning to turn on a 2 tower cablepark and you'll never have problems going upwind as your edge control will be spot on. Either that or you'll give yourself concussion catching an edge and decide that boardsports aren't for you - in which case you have saved a bunch of cash not forking out for kite gear. Still winning!

timmybuddhadude
WA, 665 posts
13 Dec 2022 9:10PM
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Ok thankyou ! ..
I've agreed for years and understand all that...for sure....they are pretty pointless (but not in the beginning) and could.. I suppose..cause bad habits such as not wanting to 'let go' etc..
So what's kitepowers Side on it to keep using them??
From what I understand the 'pushing more lessons' comment might mean someone's paying for an extra hour or two clueless about everything.. to have someone stand besides them with a small inflatable with a depower etc sheath system..
Whereas .....if they are completely clueless maybe they could just stand on the beach with the two line thing for a couple of hours..which they shouldn't have to pay for as that would be too easy
Or does kitepower mean "use them all the time' for 20mins minimum.. for the Window and manoeuvres only...but cease and go to the real system before bad habits are 'formed' etc..what do you think kitepower is trying to say to level it out ?...
Thanks again

N.b just read kitepowers theory on another thread . Wow he has a point!
..nice one

Gateman
QLD, 409 posts
1 Jan 2023 12:17AM
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Wow, I haven't been on here for over a year and the topics are all the same. As for trainer kite: I had a 2 line trainer that taught my kids kite control. My deal was "fly it 15 minutes without crashing and I'll buy you a real kite" got them a 5m inflatable LEI. When they started kiting, they could go left, not right, took them to cable park and after making them switch front foot every round, they got comfortable riding to the right. Next time they kited, they stayed upwind both directions.

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 1033 posts
9 Jan 2023 11:20AM
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Select to expand quote
Gateman said..
Wow, I haven't been on here for over a year and the topics are all the same. As for trainer kite: I had a 2 line trainer that taught my kids kite control. My deal was "fly it 15 minutes without crashing and I'll buy you a real kite" got them a 5m inflatable LEI. When they started kiting, they could go left, not right, took them to cable park and after making them switch front foot every round, they got comfortable riding to the right. Next time they kited, they stayed upwind both directions.


So you agree with Christian then? A "small" LEI kite, that gives the real feel of a real kite, with harness, bar, chicken loop, etc is the way to go?

GreenBarrels
18 posts
17 Jan 2023 9:57AM
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I flew stunt kites years ago at the beach for fun, before I'd heard about kiteboarding. We used to cheekily dive-bomb dogs and fly level with the ground, tracing shapes etc.
Once I wanted to get into kiteboarding I bought a trainer kite and spent a lot of time down at parks basically doing the same thing as the stunt kite.
IMHO flying any steerable kite will definitely transfer over to learning how to steer a kiteboarding kite.
Of course there is the learning curve on how to control sheeting in and out once you are flying a full kiteboarding kite, but control of steering is key.
Once you have kite control semi-down, putting the board into the equation is less stress, but of course there is a learning curve, the steepness of which will vary on the person.

I didn't wakeboard prior to kiting, but hit the wake park finally the other year and found it easy to pick up. So it was the other way around for me. Before the wake park I had had a couple of goes getting up on a board behind jet skis and found it easier to dial in. I don't think I could have done it as easy without the kiting experience.

One thing I did find helped, ever so slightly, was having done some snowboarding a year or so before learning kiting. That gave some feel for edging the board and switching toe to heel etc.

The biggest factor I'd say is just spending time actually doing it.
I primarily did my lessons to learn the safety aspect of kiting. How not to get into trouble and if I did, how to get out of it.
Once I had that knowledge I was confident to get in the water and just practice on my own.

The key here is I guess, once you know you can practice safely, just get in the water and try till you get it.
It doesn't really matter if you don't have experience in anything else, just do it.
But for me, kite steering was the key.

Vaness
1 posts
23 Jan 2023 7:36AM
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Bonjour,
Pour apprendre le kite et progresser vite, j'ai opt? pour la colombie !
De superbes conditions tous les jours, de l'eau chaude, du soleil et du vent !
Personnellement j'ai trouv? une super ?cole, ce sont des fran?ais et les cours sont donn?s en fran?ais, anglais ou espagnol au choix ! Sur un fait plusieurs spots g?niaux , ils sont super sympa et j'ai bien chang? plus que pr?vu !
Je vous les recommande avec plaisir si vous voulez d?buter ou vous perfectionner kite explorer colombia, ils sont proches des meilleurs spots de kite !
En esp?rant avoir pu aider !



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"Should I learn to wakeboard prior to kiteboarding? Would it help?" started by Guppyboy