Forums > Kitesurfing General

Self launching/ landing

Reply
Created by Efilnikufesin > 9 months ago, 21 Oct 2013
Efilnikufesin
QLD, 135 posts
21 Oct 2013 11:14AM
Thumbs Up

Hi every one I am new to the forum . I have a couple of questions concerning self launching and landing a kite on the beach . Is there a better way to do it besides using a sand anchor ? I know it's best to have some one help you , but I want to be self sufficient and I want to avoid having my kite tumbling down the beach after pulling the safety depower to land. I have seen a guy self launch once buy curling the kite until the wind catches it . Is this a correct method ?

Sangas
VIC, 66 posts
21 Oct 2013 12:17PM
Thumbs Up

Try this out. Not too hard after a bit of practice.

Efilnikufesin
QLD, 135 posts
21 Oct 2013 11:26AM
Thumbs Up

Wow that's great ! I would never have thought of that ! Thanks for the advice ! :)

gokid
QLD, 491 posts
21 Oct 2013 12:14PM
Thumbs Up

the above method is fine in light winds but would not want to try it in strong wind above 30 kts,

I nearly always tie off to a secure object using my safety leash,

I have a small piece off thin strong rope I loop around something secure,eg a post or small tree ,then I attach my safety between the rope and the chickenloop,run the lines out and attach my kite,go to 3 or 9 oclock and sit my kite on its wing tip,........it will just sit there,

then I walk back to the chickenloop and hook on,

move my kite to 12 oclock whist still being attached to the post or small tree,you can not go anywhere unless the post or small tree comes out of the ground or your safety leash snaps in strong gusty winds[ happened to me once ]

detach my safety off the rope and connect to my haress then transfer the safety from my chicken loop to the safety line connection

only problem is if the wind picks up and your thin strong rope looped around the small tree or post is 30m from the waters edge,How do you get to it

Always better to kite with someone else

BennyB12
QLD, 918 posts
21 Oct 2013 1:19PM
Thumbs Up

Rest your kite on the beach at 3 or 9 then walk up the centre lines hand over hand till you get to the kite.... This is for landing of course... As far as launching goes if you can relaunch your kite then you can self launch also... If you can't relaunch your kite then your instructor did a crud job....

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
21 Oct 2013 12:36PM
Thumbs Up

Is it just me, or wtf is happening with the red thumbs, with no input on why someone disapproves?

Surely this is an important topic someone has asked help for, if you feel the advice given is incorrect, please say why, don't just red thumb, be constructive hey...at least for this point, launching and landing are paramount safety issues.

Plenty of you-tube clips on the basics of self launching and landing. Search this forum actually, some really good threads on it. There was an excellent you tube clip made by AKS ages back (now called action sports of something or other).

Also suggest you find someone to show you rather as well as asking here as the reality is always a little different to the theory.

We use a combination of self launching and landing via the standard drag/roll whatever you want to call it.

But mainly we tether (look it up, use the search function) - or the last guy does, the others get a free assisted launch... All depends.

I know my brother races like a squirrell banging a nut to get setup so we launch him and then always comes in last so we have to land him....lol

I know guys who use a bread board as an tether anchor, guys who uses sand bags (well one...lol)...best bet hook up with a local and see what the others are doing and learn.

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
21 Oct 2013 12:41PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
BennyB12 said..

Rest your kite on the beach at 3 or 9 then walk up the centre lines hand over hand till you get to the kite.... This is for landing of course... As far as launching goes if you can relaunch your kite then you can self launch also... If you can't relaunch your kite then your instructor did a crud job....




Yep and also move upwind as you do this to allow the kite to rest on its back easier. Be-careful in high winds (should have someone land it anyhow) with this technique and also with kites with a lot of C in. The above is great for bow based kites, but I've got myself in some sticky situations in high winds with C kite(well hybrid C kites), it wanting to fly again!

In really high winds, if no-one can land it, just hit the primary safety man and be done with it, hey.

Efilnikufesin
QLD, 135 posts
21 Oct 2013 3:27PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for the input , I've got some stuff to go away and practice . FYI I took a two day instruction course , I was taught to do a water relaunch but only shown an assisted beach launch , I did not know that the same principal applied to an unassisted beach launch.

KiteBud
WA, 1515 posts
21 Oct 2013 2:15PM
Thumbs Up

Efilnikufesin,

you will always get various advice as to which methods are ''the best'' and it can become a bit confusing sometimes, especially for newbies. You will rarely find someone who has trialed and tested all methods and thus most people will show you the only method they know, been shown and have used. Yes tethered self-launching and self-landing methods work great and are pretty safe if properly executed, but the big downside is they offer poor versatility as you need a very strong anchor point, lots of beach space, the right wind direction, etc. things that are obviously not always available.

As a beginner, the first and most important step is to get familiar with the safety system your kite uses and perform a few ''Emergency self-landings'' on the beach or even better in shallow waters. Unfortunately very few instructors will teach this in lessons. In my opinion this skill is the cornerstone of safety and independence of every kiter.



So, once you've done a few of those comfortably, you can attempt ''advanced self-landings'' as per my Youtube video showed above. The key in these methods is that you are always detached from the chicken loop before attempting self-landing. Don't let anyone convince you to attempt self-landing without detaching from the chicken loop first unless you want to get into an accident and damage your kite. By detaching yourself from the chicken loop you are essentially in ''safety mode'' so if you fail to have the kite rest in a secure position you simply carry on following One safety line hand over hand to the kite as shown in the emergency self-landing video. Had an example just yesterday when someone attempted to self-land without detaching from the chicken loop first, failed, and the kite powered up and slammed into a 13 year old kid....

Self-Launching is definitely the most advanced skill here and for this one I would recommend you get more experience first. Lots can go wrong when attempting a slide-launch/drift launch even to the most experienced kiters out there. The more wind and less space/more obstacles you have, the more dangerous this is. Again the key is to be as safe as possible and running through a safety checklist every time (see checklist at the bottom of the self-launching video). When you're ready for self-launching, first try them in low winds (10-15 knots) and gradually attempt them in stronger winds. In anything above 20 knots, you MUST ensure the trim strap if fully pulled in AND that you keep one hand on the chicken loop quick release. this way if anything goes bad you can respond very quickly and recover your kite BEFORE you get dragged. To add to the complexity of this, every kite reacts a bit differently to self-launching, so it's also about getting used to the behavior of your kite as well.



Hope this helps,

Happy kiting and remember it's always safer to get help from someone and to always get a huge amount of clear downwind space when attempting any of these methods.

Christian

jetjackson
2 posts
21 Oct 2013 2:20PM
Thumbs Up

This is 1 way to land a kite....
but it has to be a very special kind????



zarb
NSW, 620 posts
21 Oct 2013 8:51PM
Thumbs Up

I use the self launch method shown in the second AKS video.

It's really simple, easy to learn.

NoBS
WA, 908 posts
21 Oct 2013 6:01PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Efilnikufesin said...
[br]Hi every one I am new to the forum . I have a couple of questions concerning self launching and landing a kite on the beach . Is there a better way to do it besides using a sand anchor ? I know it's best to have some one help you , but I want to be self sufficient and I want to avoid having my kite tumbling down the beach after pulling the safety depower to land. I have seen a guy self launch once buy curling the kite until the wind catches it . Is this a correct method ?


Which beach is your local???

Efilnikufesin
QLD, 135 posts
21 Oct 2013 9:17PM
Thumbs Up

yorkeys knob , north queensland !

Gumble
NSW, 22 posts
21 Oct 2013 11:19PM
Thumbs Up

As in the AKS video , I was once doing this method as a newby (almost yesterday) , and a fellow newb said mate don't put the chicken loop into your harness, just hold it in your hand until kite has rolled up on to its side. That way if it goes pear shaped, let it go, it's only a kite, not your body . It's something I always do now and have a lot more peace of mind self launching.

Kazan
QLD, 699 posts
21 Oct 2013 10:24PM
Thumbs Up

I've been kiting for about three seasons now, and without a doubt one of the most essential skills any kiter needs to learn is how to self launch from land. Self launching is actually quite easy but you need to know what you're doing and it all really comes down to one word - kite control, kite control, kite control. Ok two words!
You must be 100% with you and your kite. Note I said YOU and YOUR kite. Both of you need to be in control, but of course your kite can only be controlled by you. The wind is a random anomaly really. So if you get to that point in time when you know you can launch a kite and control it from the water, then there is no reason why you cannot do so from land. The kite performs exactly the same! It has to go onto its wing tip either way and catch the wind. So it's worth giving it a go on land. Because believe me, once you do it and see how easy it is to self launch when the kite simply flips onto its wing tip and up, you won't go back.

cauncy
WA, 8407 posts
21 Oct 2013 9:13PM
Thumbs Up





kazan its wind and conditions dependant, if you self launched and landed at my local during the last couple of days youd have a high chance of a damaged kite due to beach debris, and a high chance of visiting the local hospital as an un weighted kite would just take off, all the locals here tether lanch from post and shackle which i installed, some are new to the sport and some have been at it for over 10yrs but we all agree its the safest option at our local

general_dude
WA, 150 posts
22 Oct 2013 7:44AM
Thumbs Up

Hi guys,

I strongly recommend you don't use the AKS video (but awesome that AKS are putting up helpful content) method for self landing in anything but light winds. If you stuff it, the kite can easily roll/ slide back in the wind window and relaunch. i have seen this happen too many times and been frightened by too many beginners!
I also do not agree with the idea of just hand over handing down the front lines. This will work but if the kite goes back down the window or a gust hits it will cut hands and the kite will be gone. I saw a beginner doing this on Sunday and it was scary.


I believe there is an easier, safer and more reliable way to self land bow and many hybrid kites (longer front bridles makes this easier).
1. Let kite sit on the beach nicely (no bar input - hands off)
2. Grab the front lines above the bar and Run up wind of the kite - you sometimes need to time this as the kite bounces back down to ground and also back in the wind window
3. Run until you are directly up wind and the kite is lying on its back with its legs in the air. (Don't steer the kite, but do make sure you keep the lines from tangling and you keep tension in the front lines the whole time)
4. Kite is now totally depowered and can't go anywhere
5. Now hand over hand down the front lines towards the kite. But you must keep tension in the front lines. A wrap around your harness hook is the safest bet (especially in strong winds)and you can work down the lines like this. Stay clear of the other lines. Before starting down the front lines you can drop the bar to prevent tangles. I always loop my front lines around my harness hook while detaching my bar and safety.
6. Grab the kite.

I have never seen anyone else use this technique, but I use it every time and it has never failed me. High wind or low.
You should try this in your own kite to see if it works (do it in easy conditions first). Often as you try to run up wind the kite will slide up wind. This is about timing and you will get the knack after 2 or 3 goes and some kites like this less than others. Of course even if the kite slides forward you are still in a safe, ready to relaunch, position. The only limitations to this technique are sharp beaches and kites with no or very short front bridals. I think this method will be difficult and may even be impossible for real c style kites.

Who else out there uses and recommends this technique?
What kites does it work on? (My old switchblades, naish helix and new ozone reos are all yes)

LostDog
WA, 445 posts
22 Oct 2013 8:25AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
general_dude said..

Hi guys,

I strongly recommend you don't use the AKS video (but awesome that AKS are putting up helpful content) method for self landing in anything but light winds. If you stuff it, the kite can easily roll/ slide back in the wind window and relaunch. i have seen this happen too many times and been frightened by too many beginners!
I also do not agree with the idea of just hand over handing down the front lines. This will work but if the kite goes back down the window or a gust hits it will cut hands and the kite will be gone. I saw a beginner doing this on Sunday and it was scary.


I believe there is an easier, safer and more reliable way to self land bow and many hybrid kites (longer front bridles makes this easier).
1. Let kite sit on the beach nicely (no bar input - hands off)
2. Grab the front lines above the bar and Run up wind of the kite - you sometimes need to time this as the kite bounces back down to ground and also back in the wind window
3. Run until you are directly up wind and the kite is lying on its back with its legs in the air. (Don't steer the kite, but do make sure you keep the lines from tangling and you keep tension in the front lines the whole time)
4. Kite is now totally depowered and can't go anywhere
5. Now hand over hand down the front lines towards the kite. But you must keep tension in the front lines. A wrap around your harness hook is the safest bet (especially in strong winds)and you can work down the lines like this. Stay clear of the other lines. Before starting down the front lines you can drop the bar to prevent tangles. I always loop my front lines around my harness hook while detaching my bar and safety.
6. Grab the kite.

I have never seen anyone else use this technique, but I use it every time and it has never failed me. High wind or low.
You should try this in your own kite to see if it works (do it in easy conditions first). Often as you try to run up wind the kite will slide up wind. This is about timing and you will get the knack after 2 or 3 goes and some kites like this less than others. Of course even if the kite slides forward you are still in a safe, ready to relaunch, position. The only limitations to this technique are sharp beaches and kites with no or very short front bridals. I think this method will be difficult and may even be impossible for real c style kites.

Who else out there uses and recommends this technique?
What kites does it work on? (My old switchblades, naish helix and new ozone reos are all yes)


Hi GD, I did this by accident and also thought "well there's another method". The issue I have with this is - whilst running upwind with your chicken loop still connected leaves a danger of one of your steering lines getting snagged and inadvertently relaunching the kite. If you unhook before running, then ok, but you'll be untangling each time. Also, if you trip on your 'run' you'd have to think quickly or be agile and fast to recover.

I like the AKS version, especially the part about unhooking and leaving your safety connected. I have now used it a good few times and have never had to unravel lines or had a scary moment.

Many methods - as said, we should explore a few and use the one that is condition approapraite.

Kazan
QLD, 699 posts
22 Oct 2013 11:14AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cauncy said..





kazan its wind and conditions dependant, if you self launched and landed at my local during the last couple of days youd have a high chance of a damaged kite due to beach debris, and a high chance of visiting the local hospital as an un weighted kite would just take off, all the locals here tether lanch from post and shackle which i installed, some are new to the sport and some have been at it for over 10yrs but we all agree its the safest option at our local


Hmmm I doubt it to be honest. I've launched in less than 3mtr of space on a crowded beach and managed to keep the kite on the same exact spot to get her flipped onto the wingtip and up. Of course it takes practice, but it can be done and I never used weights. But you are right, the conditions, the beach, the people, the kite, everything has to be considered first and foremost. To start on an open beach with hardly anyone around, and low tide for extra room is pretty safe IMO.

Kazan
QLD, 699 posts
22 Oct 2013 11:16AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
general_dude said..

Hi guys,

...
...

Who else out there uses and recommends this technique?
What kites does it work on? (My old switchblades, naish helix and new ozone reos are all yes)


I do. That's exactly what I do and yes I own a Cab Switchy 14mtr. I did it just yesterday in 18knots and had no problems. The trick, like you said, is to be upwind and have tension on the lines to control the kite - hence my first reply above ... "kite control, kite control".

Kazan
QLD, 699 posts
22 Oct 2013 11:18AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
LostDog said..

Many methods - as said, we should explore a few and use the one that is condition approapraite.



Spot on!

For beginners - if there are people that can launch for you, ask them and get assistance! Don't self launch. But it's a skill you should learn eventually.

KiteBud
WA, 1515 posts
24 Oct 2013 7:41PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
general_dude said..

Hi guys,

I strongly recommend you don't use the AKS video (but awesome that AKS are putting up helpful content) method for self landing in anything but light winds. If you stuff it, the kite can easily roll/ slide back in the wind window and relaunch. i have seen this happen too many times and been frightened by too many beginners!



Hi guys, just to clarify something. Over time we've been getting a lot of great feed-back about the self-landing video, although some people are advising things like '' do not to try this in strong winds as the kite can power back up''. This information is misleading and shows a lack of understanding of the functioning of safety systems. If that's your logic, then it's as if you were telling someone NEVER to use their safety system in strong winds?!

In fact if I understand the general_dude's method correctly, you are telling people to walk straight upwind of the kite whilst still connected to the chicken loop, i.e. kite is now in the power zone! Then, you advise to go hand over hand to the kite whilst still connected to the chicken loop and kite in the power zone... I wonder why you're the only one trying this method?

Essentially the ''advanced self-landing techniques'' shown in our video is a shortcut of the ''emergency self-landing'', which means if you FAIL to land the kite in a secure position on the beach it CANNOT power up as you are already in ''safety mode''.

At the risk of repeating myself, all self-landing techniques we demonstrate ALWAYS involve unhooking from the chicken loop first which is exactly the SAME result as activating the quicken loop quick release.

If you still think it's unsafe to self-land whilst disconnected from the chicken loop then I wonder how you get out of sticky situations without someones help?

castill0jf
VIC, 563 posts
25 Oct 2013 12:27AM
Thumbs Up

my 2ctv



everyone has their prefer self landing Technic ... good luck

Intheozone
WA, 247 posts
25 Oct 2013 12:02AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cbulota said..

Efilnikufesin,

you will always get various advice as to which methods are ''the best'' and it can become a bit confusing sometimes, especially for newbies. You will rarely find someone who has trialed and tested all methods and thus most people will show you the only method they know, been shown and have used. Yes tethered self-launching and self-landing methods work great and are pretty safe if properly executed, but the big downside is they offer poor versatility as you need a very strong anchor point, lots of beach space, the right wind direction, etc. things that are obviously not always available.

As a beginner, the first and most important step is to get familiar with the safety system your kite uses and perform a few ''Emergency self-landings'' on the beach or even better in shallow waters. Unfortunately very few instructors will teach this in lessons. In my opinion this skill is the cornerstone of safety and independence of every kiter.



So, once you've done a few of those comfortably, you can attempt ''advanced self-landings'' as per my Youtube video showed above. The key in these methods is that you are always detached from the chicken loop before attempting self-landing. Don't let anyone convince you to attempt self-landing without detaching from the chicken loop first unless you want to get into an accident and damage your kite. By detaching yourself from the chicken loop you are essentially in ''safety mode'' so if you fail to have the kite rest in a secure position you simply carry on following One safety line hand over hand to the kite as shown in the emergency self-landing video. Had an example just yesterday when someone attempted to self-land without detaching from the chicken loop first, failed, and the kite powered up and slammed into a 13 year old kid....

Self-Launching is definitely the most advanced skill here and for this one I would recommend you get more experience first. Lots can go wrong when attempting a slide-launch/drift launch even to the most experienced kiters out there. The more wind and less space/more obstacles you have, the more dangerous this is. Again the key is to be as safe as possible and running through a safety checklist every time (see checklist at the bottom of the self-launching video). When you're ready for self-launching, first try them in low winds (10-15 knots) and gradually attempt them in stronger winds. In anything above 20 knots, you MUST ensure the trim strap if fully pulled in AND that you keep one hand on the chicken loop quick release. this way if anything goes bad you can respond very quickly and recover your kite BEFORE you get dragged. To add to the complexity of this, every kite reacts a bit differently to self-launching, so it's also about getting used to the behavior of your kite as well.



Hope this helps,

Happy kiting and remember it's always safer to get help from someone and to always get a huge amount of clear downwind space when attempting any of these methods.

Christian


remember if you are in a place with a small/ narrow beach you may have to be in the water when doing this.

Simsurf
WA, 237 posts
25 Oct 2013 9:59AM
Thumbs Up

I tether self launch and land most of the time but when unable due to lack of fixed point, I use minor variations of the AKS videos above. Works every time except once on the launch. Kite was dragged to dead downwind and launched straight into the power zone. Had a hand on the quick release and just dumped it. No problem. Always fully depowered on launch and land and keeping one hand ready to fire the safety are the key points.

airush
WA, 44 posts
25 Oct 2013 10:14AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cbulota said..
Efilnikufesin,

you will always get various advice as to which methods are ''the best'' and it can become a bit confusing sometimes, especially for newbies. You will rarely find someone who has trialed and tested all methods and thus most people will show you the only method they know, been shown and have used. Yes tethered self-launching and self-landing methods work great and are pretty safe if properly executed, but the big downside is they offer poor versatility as you need a very strong anchor point, lots of beach space, the right wind direction, etc. things that are obviously not always available.

As a beginner, the first and most important step is to get familiar with the safety system your kite uses and perform a few ''Emergency self-landings'' on the beach or even better in shallow waters. Unfortunately very few instructors will teach this in lessons. In my opinion this skill is the cornerstone of safety and independence of every kiter.


So, once you've done a few of those comfortably, you can attempt ''advanced self-landings'' as per my Youtube video showed above. The key in these methods is that you are always detached from the chicken loop before attempting self-landing. Don't let anyone convince you to attempt self-landing without detaching from the chicken loop first unless you want to get into an accident and damage your kite. By detaching yourself from the chicken loop you are essentially in ''safety mode'' so if you fail to have the kite rest in a secure position you simply carry on following One safety line hand over hand to the kite as shown in the emergency self-landing video. Had an example just yesterday when someone attempted to self-land without detaching from the chicken loop first, failed, and the kite powered up and slammed into a 13 year old kid....

Self-Launching is definitely the most advanced skill here and for this one I would recommend you get more experience first. Lots can go wrong when attempting a slide-launch/drift launch even to the most experienced kiters out there. The more wind and less space/more obstacles you have, the more dangerous this is. Again the key is to be as safe as possible and running through a safety checklist every time (see checklist at the bottom of the self-launching video). When you're ready for self-launching, first try them in low winds (10-15 knots) and gradually attempt them in stronger winds. In anything above 20 knots, you MUST ensure the trim strap if fully pulled in AND that you keep one hand on the chicken loop quick release. this way if anything goes bad you can respond very quickly and recover your kite BEFORE you get dragged. To add to the complexity of this, every kite reacts a bit differently to self-launching, so it's also about getting used to the behavior of your kite as well.
this helps, Happy kiting and remember it's always safer to get help from someone and to always get a huge amount of clear downwind space when attempting any of these methods. Christian


I pretty much use this self launching technique exclusively at my local and it works a treat, although I am still ironing out some technique issues. A couple of times on launching the kite has failied to flip up onto its wing tip and instead it slid along the beach on its leading edge??? In this scenario I just walked down wind again slightly, pulling on the opposite steering line managing to drag back up wind and launch, no problems. As I said, its obviously a technique issue, Im just lucky that I have plenty or room to practice and am only attempting in light to moderate winds.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Kitesurfing General


"Self launching/ landing" started by Efilnikufesin