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Flysurfer hybrid foil kite

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Created by Alysum 4 months ago, 16 Sep 2022
Alysum
NSW, 980 posts
16 Sep 2022 9:08PM
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Looks like Flysurfer will be releasing a hybrid foil kite closed cell/single skin, the lightest & swimmable kite ?
Great to see some innovation beyond the aluula material.
The designer briefly talks about it here:


KBGhost
QLD, 233 posts
17 Sep 2022 10:16AM
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Interesting to see it finally emerge. Flysurfer have been taking their sweet time with the Hybrid, it's been rumoured for years. Can't wait for the reviews from peak riders to come out. Hard to convince them it's not a step backwards, the potential for a swim in isn't really that big a worry once you've done it a couple of times and learned to not crash them.

Gin Marabou is on the 2nd gen and getting good reviews - this looks to have a lot more inflated area, they said 40% twin skin in the vid where the marabou looks closer to 20-30%.

The whole vid is worth a watch too

KooleyKiter
2 posts
17 Sep 2022 9:19AM
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Love my Peaks. Can go for muany sessions without dropping them. I end up not thinking at all about relaunch ... but sooner or later something unexpected happens & they end up in the water. Relaunching success (except immediately after dropping) is very spotty - the biggest problem is controlling the board while trying to deal with the kite.

mikesids
111 posts
17 Sep 2022 10:15AM
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Certainly be interested to hear some reviews from folk who are already using Peaks. Had a 9m Gin Shaman single skin kite a couple of years ago, would fly in very little wind but the lack of a decent power spike made it very hard to water start. Had a couple of long swims too. But still keeping my eyes out for a solution for 7-10 kt gutless summer breezes , with a larger foil this time around.

KBGhost
QLD, 233 posts
18 Sep 2022 10:06AM
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mikesids said..
But still keeping my eyes out for a solution for 7-10 kt gutless summer breezes , with a larger foil this time around.


I don't like larger peaks either, not enough structure. The solution for me has been PLKB nova 10 ultralight. Weighs under 1.5kgs.

www.plkb.world/kiteboarding/products/foil-kites/plkb-nova-v1-depower-foil-kite-5ee23cde6af0e664d005957a

KBGhost
QLD, 233 posts
18 Sep 2022 10:08AM
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KooleyKiter said..
the biggest problem is controlling the board while trying to deal with the kite.


I have a leash plug in a corner of my boards with a 5cm rope loop. Clip safety leash on to that, push board around behind you, concentrate on what's in front.

airsail
QLD, 992 posts
18 Sep 2022 10:31AM
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KBGhost said..

mikesids said..
But still keeping my eyes out for a solution for 7-10 kt gutless summer breezes , with a larger foil this time around.



I don't like larger peaks either, not enough structure. The solution for me has been PLKB nova 10 ultralight. Weighs under 1.5kgs.

www.plkb.world/kiteboarding/products/foil-kites/plkb-nova-v1-depower-foil-kite-5ee23cde6af0e664d005957a


Not according to their website, 1.936kgs, same as a 10mtr Soul


KBGhost
QLD, 233 posts
18 Sep 2022 11:43AM
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Sorry I linked to the standard one. The Ultralight is the one if you're after 6-10kt foiling. A soul would work as well

www.plkb.world/kiteboarding/products/foil-kites/nova-ultralight-depower-foil-kite-5ee362dbe2100166451e84a3


NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 1033 posts
19 Sep 2022 4:05PM
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That's not a hybrid. That looks a lot like the much loved Nasa Wings, which one can build yourself.

www.instructables.com/9-Square-Meter-Nasa-ParaWing-Traction-Kite/

Gorgo
VIC, 4790 posts
19 Sep 2022 6:22PM
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I just weighed my Gin Spirit 10m and it is 1.7kg (the web site says 1.6kg which is plausible given the accuracy of my luggage scales). 41 cells 6:1AR.

In the paragliding world some manufacturers have brought out single skin wings while others have pursued ultra-light double skin wings because they are more stable and have much better performance. You can get a 17m double skin weighing 2.1kg.

KBGhost
QLD, 233 posts
22 Sep 2022 10:59AM
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NorthernKitesAUS said..
That's not a hybrid. That looks a lot like the much loved Nasa Wings, which one can build yourself.

www.instructables.com/9-Square-Meter-Nasa-ParaWing-Traction-Kite/



It's literally called "Hybrid" by Flysurfer and it means it's a hybrid of single and double skins. So you've managed to be wrong on 2 counts in 4 words, which I do believe is a new record

Yes you can build any foil kite yourself, but unless you're very talented and invest in great materials, it will be Sh!t compared to the one you buy. But some people have too much time on their hands and enjoy the process I guess.

airsail
QLD, 992 posts
22 Sep 2022 11:23AM
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Select to expand quote
KBGhost said..

NorthernKitesAUS said..
That's not a hybrid. That looks a lot like the much loved Nasa Wings, which one can build yourself.

www.instructables.com/9-Square-Meter-Nasa-ParaWing-Traction-Kite/




It's literally called "Hybrid" by Flysurfer and it means it's a hybrid of single and double skins. So you've managed to be wrong on 2 counts in 4 words, which I do believe is a new record

Yes you can build any foil kite yourself, but unless you're very talented and invest in great materials, it will be Sh!t compared to the one you buy. But some people have too much time on their hands and enjoy the process I guess.

Or you can go and buy a Pansh, save yourself the trouble of building a foil kite. It will still be sh!t but at least you don't have to build it.

airsail
QLD, 992 posts
28 Oct 2022 7:36AM
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flysurfer.com/project/hybrid/

weebitbreezy
588 posts
28 Oct 2022 5:20PM
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That price though It doesn't even have any Aluula in it

KBGhost
QLD, 233 posts
30 Oct 2022 11:14AM
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Yeah they overcooked the pricing, the windrange charts make no sense, and he marketing as a kids kite is just weird as well. Good job Flysurfer.

However ... given that they managed to keep weights comparable to peaks, the good peaks top out at the 6m, and the 6m is often not enough for us bigger units, well all things considered the 7.5m could be a ripper. Particularly in the waves as early reports are that it drifts extremely well.

drsurf
NSW, 164 posts
1 Nov 2022 2:11AM
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Well we'll soon be able to see for ourselves how the Hybrid goes. I have a shipment of Hybrids on their way from Flysurfer and like many I also found the details and promotional info confusing. So I'm very keen to get them out on the water and see what Australian kite foilers think. Interested to see how they go with a surfboard too, as the drift plus more performance than a single skin could be a magical combo in waves...

Obviously as keen Peak user I'll be trying them out myself and have them for demo, hopefully at Merimbula.

Pricing is not as low as the Peak5, probably more in line with 2022 LEI kites but less than twin skin foil kites.

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 1033 posts
1 Nov 2022 11:39AM
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airsail said..

KBGhost said..

Yes you can build any foil kite yourself, but unless you're very talented and invest in great materials, it will be Sh!t compared to the one you buy. But some people have too much time on their hands and enjoy the process I guess.


Or you can go and buy a Pansh, save yourself the trouble of building a foil kite. It will still be sh!t but at least you don't have to build it.


Or I'll wait until you birds get sick of it, and I'll buy it 2nd hand. I always get them in the end.

derek72
WA, 46 posts
1 Nov 2022 2:53PM
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Gin Marabou V2 6m hybrid kites just landed in Perth (also have a 10m demo) if anyone wants to try and/or buy one hit me up, other sizes coming soon. you can also buy on the website ginkitesaustralia.com.au/

derek72
WA, 46 posts
2 Nov 2022 7:42AM
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I tried the 6m marabou2 in the ocean yesterday and its fantastic, review video coming soon, have uploaded some raw video, link below. Great water start power on pocket foil board (f-one pocket carbon with kujira 750) I am 115kg and wind was up and down, at times near 11kn and no problem, amazing angles upwind and downwind - almost directly at the kite with the rollers and it just drifts. Gusts were up around 19kn and those were no problem too, its hard to not sound like i am hyping this kite but it was one of the best foil sessions i have ever had, just heaps of fun (not trying to hijack thread, i'm sure FS Hybrid will be also awesome). Last season I tried Gin Shaman single skin with a foil once at City Beach way overpowered (video on my youtube) and once in the river and had to swim it which put me off trying in the ocean which is where these are really fun so I never really got it, but i get it now, these types of kites are super fun and being able to relaunch is is a game changer (especially for riding in sharky places). I easily rode down to another break and pumped around on rollers and then very easily back up to where i started, really impressive angles, i mostly ride race gear and on older single skins line earlier shamans and peaks and even marabou1 I hated their upwind performance, but the Shaman3 and MarabouV2 gun upwind which is important for me to enjoy a kite. Yesterday at Cott/cables i was able to ride outbound on a very high angle and then downwind on perfect angle along the waves and then repeat (battery went flat at this point sadly).

I did put it in the water at one point by messing up a gybe and it looked like a mess on the water whilst i got the board and then it just opened up and restarted itself with almost no input (reassuring when there was a shark warning prior to my session). The ultralight bag it comes with is the best i have seen, weighs next to nothing and has a great bar pocket. I used a Gin Foil bar with 15m lines and which is a normal bar-neutral bar and didn't require any trimmer changes at any point, lines could be a bit longer, might try a different bar today, in some ways its a bit like a LEI, you can move the kite around for more power in lulls so longer lines might be even better.

RE wind ranges I think this 6m has more power than the 8m peak4 I tried so similar bottom end to that (see video also on my youtube). Top end (for hydrofoil) will be similar to Shaman 6m, I had that out in 25-27kn and it was a pain in the ass (video on channel), you can do it but why would you want to. I guess the top end I'd like to use the 6m in will be somewhere around 20kn, yesterday I was enjoying the gusts which were up to 19kn, never felt overpowered. Recently I rode the 10m marabou2 in gusts up to about 15-20kn and it was annoying, the big ones are for light winds with a foil.

Alysum
NSW, 980 posts
2 Nov 2022 5:50PM
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Can be used as a wingkite too

drsurf
NSW, 164 posts
3 Nov 2022 1:11AM
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Alysum said..
Can be used as a wingkite too


Just saw that Alysum and was going to post it, but you beat me to it
Could be a great way to get wing foilers kiting

weebitbreezy
588 posts
3 Nov 2022 12:09AM
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Looks like it potentially opens up a number of tricky launch spots too? Don't know whether you could get away with using restricted access spots (no kite spots) that windsurfers/etc use?

Maybe if you were quick. Its not like you need to leave a pump around as evidence on the shore.

derek72
WA, 46 posts
3 Nov 2022 10:06AM
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I reckon you could also paddle out with the kite and bar on your board and launch on the water, that throw launch is awesome! Same for packdown, wrap it up and paddle in. Also super safe, the 5.5/6m are about 1kg and you can almost stuff them in your pocket, would make it easy to paddle back in during an offshore wind. I might have to give this a go, potentially this is a lot harder than Armin makes it look.

Sandee
QLD, 89 posts
3 Nov 2022 1:58PM
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derek72 said..
I tried the 6m marabou2 in the ocean yesterday and its fantastic, review video coming soon, have uploaded some raw video, link below. Great water start power on pocket foil board (f-one pocket carbon with kujira 750) I am 115kg and wind was up and down, at times near 11kn and no problem, amazing angles upwind and downwind - almost directly at the kite with the rollers and it just drifts. Gusts were up around 19kn and those were no problem too, its hard to not sound like i am hyping this kite but it was one of the best foil sessions i have ever had, just heaps of fun (not trying to hijack thread, i'm sure FS Hybrid will be also awesome). Last season I tried Gin Shaman single skin with a foil once at City Beach way overpowered (video on my youtube) and once in the river and had to swim it which put me off trying in the ocean which is where these are really fun so I never really got it, but i get it now, these types of kites are super fun and being able to relaunch is is a game changer (especially for riding in sharky places). I easily rode down to another break and pumped around on rollers and then very easily back up to where i started, really impressive angles, i mostly ride race gear and on older single skins line earlier shamans and peaks and even marabou1 I hated their upwind performance, but the Shaman3 and MarabouV2 gun upwind which is important for me to enjoy a kite. Yesterday at Cott/cables i was able to ride outbound on a very high angle and then downwind on perfect angle along the waves and then repeat (battery went flat at this point sadly).

I did put it in the water at one point by messing up a gybe and it looked like a mess on the water whilst i got the board and then it just opened up and restarted itself with almost no input (reassuring when there was a shark warning prior to my session). The ultralight bag it comes with is the best i have seen, weighs next to nothing and has a great bar pocket. I used a Gin Foil bar with 15m lines and which is a normal bar-neutral bar and didn't require any trimmer changes at any point, lines could be a bit longer, might try a different bar today, in some ways its a bit like a LEI, you can move the kite around for more power in lulls so longer lines might be even better.

RE wind ranges I think this 6m has more power than the 8m peak4 I tried so similar bottom end to that (see video also on my youtube). Top end (for hydrofoil) will be similar to Shaman 6m, I had that out in 25-27kn and it was a pain in the ass (video on channel), you can do it but why would you want to. I guess the top end I'd like to use the 6m in will be somewhere around 20kn, yesterday I was enjoying the gusts which were up to 19kn, never felt overpowered. Recently I rode the 10m marabou2 in gusts up to about 15-20kn and it was annoying, the big ones are for light winds with a foil.


That kite does look nice. But the video could've used a LOT of trimming before uploading! Maybe I missed the best bits by skipping forward over most of it?

drsurf
NSW, 164 posts
4 Nov 2022 9:59PM
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Surprised to find a whole box of Flysurfer Hybrids arrived this morning
And some good nor-east seabreezes due for this weekend So I can see for myself how they compare to a Peak5

If you're interested in one for yourself or want to see & fly one for real on the NSW south coast feel free to contact me.

derek72
WA, 46 posts
5 Nov 2022 10:56AM
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Another video of a hybrid being flown with 1m lines www.instagram.com/reel/CkjKgGGjNOH/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link. @sandee proper video review is on the way I just wanted to share some raw footage of the kite as soon as I had it, some people have been waiting a long time to see how these new hybrids perform

drsurf
NSW, 164 posts
7 Nov 2022 12:28AM
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After a weekend with steady north east seabreezes, I've put a few hours on the 3.5m Hybrid. The wind averaged 14-16 knots on the water and had only a few holes & gusts. With my current 68kg, 990sq cm med aspect SABfoil 679 & 110cm Axis Tray it was the right size for me on the two days. I like to ride the smallest kite I can for faster kite speed & turning and lots of depower when riding swell but still enough power to crank back upwind. (Tracks pic below.)

Usually I would use the 4m Peak5 in this wind so I figured the 3.5m Hybrid would be close enough. It was, but I could feel a little less grunt when getting up on the board/foil which was likely due to the .5m less kite area. Once up and going the Hybrid felt like a Peak kite. Speed of the kite and turning were very similar, from the wind I had, the power/depower felt similar and most of all the drift was still there

If I could name any differences they were quite small and not an issue and some were positive. Instead of a quick Peak hot launch, I opened the rear facing velcro inflate deflate port in with the kite directly downwind and let some air in. 30 seconds and the twin skin section was 3/4 full. Then hot launch the kite with the bar at full power to finish inflating the kite in about 5 seconds. Easy and the kite was controllable. There seemed to be slightly more bar pressure when fully sheeting in to go upwind, but it was very minor. The Peak5 kites I have been using may be slightly more punchy in their power delivery but hard to tell when you're not comparing identically sized kites. Also I need to consider the fact that as a new kite it does take some time for the kite bridles and fabric to settle in. With regard to the drift, I felt that when you caught some swell and picked up speed going right towards the kite slackening the lines, the partial twin skin construction kept the kite in shape more whereas on the Peak5 the kite may partially start to collapse as line tension was holding all the shape in the kite. However I also found the Peak5 easy to recover from any partial collapse.

However I suppose the biggest difference was how easy was the Hybrid to relaunch? When I walked the kite to the water to go out the calls from the beach were: "crash it, put it in the water, see if you can get it up." So I did, a number of times including one time when I hit the bottom with the foil trying to get going and grabbed the wrong side of the bar
Each time the kite relaunched with ease, virtually by itself. The Hybrid is very light and virtually the same weight as a similar sized Peak so it sits right on top of the water and does not deflate. In fact even sitting on the shore for half an hour it was still quite full of air.
So it's a kite I wouldn't be afraid of taking offshore with reasonable safety considerations and also into decent surf where a quick relaunch would be required after a crash.

So does it replace the Peak kites? I've been happy with my Peak5 kites. So far the few times I've dropped them I've been able to relaunch. The Peak5 is also quite a bit cheaper than the Hybrid as it is a much simpler construction. Need to try the Hybrid in some stronger wind to compare the top end. There is some flutter when sheeting right out but it's minor and not something I think is a negative. It tells me when I'm riding waves downwind that the kite is providing very little pull and the wave and foil are doing the work as I hunt every little peak of wind chop.
If you like the Peak kite performance characteristics but want guaranteed relaunch the Hybrid is definitely for you. If you have a/some Peak kite/s and want to add another kite to your range the Hybrid is worth serious consideration. Does it replace the Peak? I don't think so. Peaks are great performers and as a value proposition can't be beat. You've just got more choice now




IWantToFly
2 posts
7 Nov 2022 1:08AM
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Thanks for the update. I'm just getting into peaks with a 5m Peak5 but I'm already thinking about the smaller size I will want (72kg using a Triton monowing). Looks like the 3.5m will be a good option versus the Peak4/5 4m.

Jhana
WA, 118 posts
16 Nov 2022 10:48PM
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I took the 5.5 Hybrid for a foil I found it to be really amazing to loop, it can loop considerably quicker and tighter than the Peak. The power you get is really smooth, I thought to myself this is almost cheating this kite is so easy to foil with. Big loops small loops, it was smooth as. There was no surge of power which can throw you off a foil which you can get with inflatable kites . It goes upwind really well and it is very responsive with very little bar pressure, which is nice because I have a sore elbow. Gusts are no problem and it is really easy to depower and glide.

I also did a Downwinder with the 7.5 hybrid and a surfboard, I was a little under powered compared to my mate on an 8m Reo, I purposely dropped the kite in small waves and it relaunched immediately, amazing, it gave me confidence knowing you can get the kite up quickly before the next set comes through. I did have to loop the kite to create some power sometimes however the kite was easy to whip around and manouvre, I was using 20m lines. The Hybrid doesn't have a lot of lift, but it does have amazing drift, just sheet out a little when you are on the wave and there is no pull from the kite. The Hybrid also went upwind very well on the surfboard even better than the Peak which surprised me.

To get the equivalent size in an inflatable kite you multiply the Peak5 size by about 1.5, so a 6m Peak5 is equivalent to a 9m inflatable kite.

For the Hybrid you would say its a 1:1 ratio 5.5 Hybrid is equal to a 5.5 to 6m inflatable kite approximately.

The launch is easy and the bridles have been shortened considerably compared to the Peak5, the kite also kept its shape on gybes and the wing tips did not collapse. The Hybrid does not flutter as much as the Peak5.

If I was to teach anyone how to loop I would use a Hybrid simply because it is so smooth and easy and takes the fear out of being launched.

I fly Peak kites for foiling and Downwinders and I have put in my order for a Hybrid.

Vicente
12 posts
22 Dec 2022 7:37AM
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Jhana said..
I took the 5.5 Hybrid for a foil I found it to be really amazing to loop, it can loop considerably quicker and tighter than the Peak. The power you get is really smooth, I thought to myself this is almost cheating this kite is so easy to foil with. Big loops small loops, it was smooth as. There was no surge of power which can throw you off a foil which you can get with inflatable kites . It goes upwind really well and it is very responsive with very little bar pressure, which is nice because I have a sore elbow. Gusts are no problem and it is really easy to depower and glide.

I also did a Downwinder with the 7.5 hybrid and a surfboard, I was a little under powered compared to my mate on an 8m Reo, I purposely dropped the kite in small waves and it relaunched immediately, amazing, it gave me confidence knowing you can get the kite up quickly before the next set comes through. I did have to loop the kite to create some power sometimes however the kite was easy to whip around and manouvre, I was using 20m lines. The Hybrid doesn't have a lot of lift, but it does have amazing drift, just sheet out a little when you are on the wave and there is no pull from the kite. The Hybrid also went upwind very well on the surfboard even better than the Peak which surprised me.

To get the equivalent size in an inflatable kite you multiply the Peak5 size by about 1.5, so a 6m Peak5 is equivalent to a 9m inflatable kite.

For the Hybrid you would say its a 1:1 ratio 5.5 Hybrid is equal to a 5.5 to 6m inflatable kite approximately.

The launch is easy and the bridles have been shortened considerably compared to the Peak5, the kite also kept its shape on gybes and the wing tips did not collapse. The Hybrid does not flutter as much as the Peak5.

If I was to teach anyone how to loop I would use a Hybrid simply because it is so smooth and easy and takes the fear out of being launched.

I fly Peak kites for foiling and Downwinders and I have put in my order for a Hybrid.





Hi
After reading your post i compared Flysurfer wind range charts for Peak and Hybrid. Peaks seem to be more powerful by its size on larger kites and the opposite happens to Hybrid in smaller kites. The wind range for 5m (Peak) and 5.5 (Hybrid) are similar, from 12-22 knots. The similar charts diverge a bit from your ratio of 1:1.5 (Peak) and 1:1.1 (Hybrid).

Do you see these ratios applicable to all Hybrid and Peaks sizes? Or Do Hybrid and Peak have similar wind ranges at 5ish meters? Are 5ish meters of both equivalent to 9m LEI?

thanks

drsurf
NSW, 164 posts
24 Dec 2022 12:44AM
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Hi Vicente.
If you haven't tried a Peak or Hybrid it's hard to explain the difference between the two and their wind range, as there are many variables starting with what you intend to do with the kites. I'm assuming you are an experienced kite foiler and going by your previous posts have an Armstrong HA925. This is a very high aspect wing which is very glide oriented and may be somewhat of a handful with a kite where you are well powered most of the time.
Once you get up on this foil you will probably want as little kite power as possible and a 5m Peak or 5.5m Hybrid may be more than you need over 15 knots. Although both of these kites are roughly equivalent to an 8m - 9m LEI kite they also have characteristics which no LEI kite can match, such as incredible drift and the responsiveness only a kite weighing less than 1 kilogram can give.

Either of these kites may suit you. If you want relaunch ability then go the Hybrid, apart from that these kites are reasonably similar. However i would also consider trying a smaller width front wing of a lower aspect ratio which is more kite oriented as you'll find it may give you a lot more manoeuvrability and fun compared to the HA925.



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"Flysurfer hybrid foil kite" started by Alysum