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Gonged

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Created by edham 2 months ago, 19 Nov 2022
Dspace
208 posts
21 Nov 2022 1:27PM
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Grantmac said..
I ride Gong foils and really like them. Recently stepped into the new HA and they are excellent, especially the new tail.
However the new spread tow carbon they are using is extremely brittle. I've destroyed a tail when I wasn't even riding, just touched something in the sand when walking in.
Of course this requires a whole new tail piece plus shipping from Europe.
I might machine my spare fuselage to fit other brands tails.




Interesting. I have two pro tails (Fluid H42 and H45) that have seen a lot of use and have not had any issue with either of them so far. Also very quiet. Super thin profile so I do try to be reasonably careful with them out of the water.

Since my first Gong foil purchase in Sept 2019 I've always noticed that they would get more negative comments compared to the other major brands. Maybe it just comes with the business model and a bit of the fan boy cult reputation (although the fan boy cult could be said of any of the main brands). Even Patrice sounded a bit weary/irritated when responding to the question of whether Malo was on production gear or not for the competition in the Gong Facebook group. Interesting to see his comment on Gong factory production costs.

Oh well, so be it. Great to have choices and just being able to play with these cool toys








mcrt
536 posts
21 Nov 2022 2:22PM
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Patrice has thin skin and short patience.
If the kid was on proto gear nobody would bat an eye, it is a World Championship,go for it.

Camarillo
340 posts
21 Nov 2022 2:32PM
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Interesting, 100% production gear , I wonder? Perhaps Colas can shed his light on this..
I could off course ask on the Gong Facebook group or on the Gong forum but I will probably get Bear annoyed....


colas
4754 posts
21 Nov 2022 2:44PM
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Dspace said..
Since my first Gong foil purchase in Sept 2019 I've always noticed that they would get more negative comments compared to the other major brands. Maybe it just comes with the business model


This is definitely a factor.
As a direct sales brand, brick-and mortar shops were badmouthing it aggressively (and some still do).
I have seen it personally, in Cannes a shop owner was badmouthing Gong during all his sessions.

Also, Patrice Guenole has earned his nickname "L'Ours" (the bear) during his teenage longboarding contest years with his rough personality.

The result is that Patrice know what kind of rumors are being pushed by some competitors behind the scenes, and can be quite abrasive when some poor chap appears to repeat them, even unknowingly and with genuine concern. It may also be his long experience of managing online communities, that if you let rumors get unanswered, people in 10 years times will still be citing them as "proofs".

The result is that he can be too defensive at times.

edham
9 posts
21 Nov 2022 2:46PM
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Think that's the 2023 lethal that they are about to release. So not strictly current stock gear but soon to be.

colas
4754 posts
21 Nov 2022 3:04PM
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Camarillo said..
Interesting, 100% production gear


100% production gear.
Thats the 2023 line that is in transit now from the factory to be available in the coming days.
What Patrice said on Facebook: "next week I hope."

This specific board was made in La Baule, with the same computer files as the production line, to be ready in advance.

The best proof of this is that this board, the lethal, has been in sale (-15%) for some time on the Gong site, a clear indication that a new line is coming. And as a direct order brand, sales do not last long, as they do not have to keep a lot of stock, and Patrice never announce new lines beforehand, (We ambassadors have the luxury to be warned ... a day in advance), I guess wary of the Osborne effect.

Camarillo
340 posts
21 Nov 2022 3:16PM
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colas said..


This specific board was made in La Baule, with the same computer files as the production line, to be ready in advance.


I wouldn't call that a 100% production board.

Grantmac
1707 posts
22 Nov 2022 3:07AM
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Dspace said..


Grantmac said..
I ride Gong foils and really like them. Recently stepped into the new HA and they are excellent, especially the new tail.
However the new spread tow carbon they are using is extremely brittle. I've destroyed a tail when I wasn't even riding, just touched something in the sand when walking in.
Of course this requires a whole new tail piece plus shipping from Europe.
I might machine my spare fuselage to fit other brands tails.






Interesting. I have two pro tails (Fluid H42 and H45) that have seen a lot of use and have not had any issue with either of them so far. Also very quiet. Super thin profile so I do try to be reasonably careful with them out of the water.

Since my first Gong foil purchase in Sept 2019 I've always noticed that they would get more negative comments compared to the other major brands. Maybe it just comes with the business model and a bit of the fan boy cult reputation (although the fan boy cult could be said of any of the main brands). Even Patrice sounded a bit weary/irritated when responding to the question of whether Malo was on production gear or not for the competition in the Gong Facebook group. Interesting to see his comment on Gong factory production costs.

Oh well, so be it. Great to have choices and just being able to play with these cool toys









My tail didn't fit the fuselage that well, I had to shim to line it up. It also whistled from the beginning. Maybe a construction issue?

Most of the trailing edge blew apart. I still don't know how. I have yet to contact Gong but based on my previous experience with their customer service I'm not optimistic.

Their older wings and stabs stood up fine. The new laminate seems to be extremely brittle. Too bad since I really liked how it rode although I wish it was possible to shim, mine seems to build back foot pressure at speed which I dislike. Maybe I'm just heavy enough to need a bigger stab? Happened with the Veloce L stab as well which surprised me.
I can machine my fuselage however I want (I have a mill) and I might modify my original to take starboard tail pieces since I have a spare. Then maybe look for a KD tail or similar.


Fishdude
210 posts
22 Nov 2022 10:21AM
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Grantmac said..


Dspace said..




Grantmac said..
I ride Gong foils and really like them. Recently stepped into the new HA and they are excellent, especially the new tail.
However the new spread tow carbon they are using is extremely brittle. I've destroyed a tail when I wasn't even riding, just touched something in the sand when walking in.
Of course this requires a whole new tail piece plus shipping from Europe.
I might machine my spare fuselage to fit other brands tails.








Interesting. I have two pro tails (Fluid H42 and H45) that have seen a lot of use and have not had any issue with either of them so far. Also very quiet. Super thin profile so I do try to be reasonably careful with them out of the water.

Since my first Gong foil purchase in Sept 2019 I've always noticed that they would get more negative comments compared to the other major brands. Maybe it just comes with the business model and a bit of the fan boy cult reputation (although the fan boy cult could be said of any of the main brands). Even Patrice sounded a bit weary/irritated when responding to the question of whether Malo was on production gear or not for the competition in the Gong Facebook group. Interesting to see his comment on Gong factory production costs.

Oh well, so be it. Great to have choices and just being able to play with these cool toys











My tail didn't fit the fuselage that well, I had to shim to line it up. It also whistled from the beginning. Maybe a construction issue?

Most of the trailing edge blew apart. I still don't know how. I have yet to contact Gong but based on my previous experience with their customer service I'm not optimistic.

Their older wings and stabs stood up fine. The new laminate seems to be extremely brittle. Too bad since I really liked how it rode although I wish it was possible to shim, mine seems to build back foot pressure at speed which I dislike. Maybe I'm just heavy enough to need a bigger stab? Happened with the Veloce L stab as well which surprised me.
I can machine my fuselage however I want (I have a mill) and I might modify my original to take starboard tail pieces since I have a spare. Then maybe look for a KD tail or similar.



Many stronger materials are more brittle. I suspect that carbon is more brittle, but I don't know that for a fact. It's good info to know, going to be a little extra careful going forward with these stabs.

To see the stab break when the two (RRD riding) bothers were competing in the surf, was kind of telling about higher performance gear .

colas
4754 posts
22 Nov 2022 2:01PM
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Grantmac said..
I've destroyed a tail when I wasn't even riding, just touched something in the sand when walking in.


Well, there is no free lunch: thinner is faster, but is also less impact resistant.
Hitting a rock, even in the sand, will do this to thin carbon pieces.

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Grantmac said..
Of course this requires a whole new tail piece plus shipping from Europe.


No need to, just create a paste with some epoxy + thickener (silicate) + microspheres (+ black pigments), or epoxy + thickener (silicate) + bits of carbon fibers cut in small pieces, that you apply to recreate the missing part, squeezing it for curing inside plastic sheets (or tape) in a vice padded with foam.

The same technique as for repairing fin dents.

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Grantmac said..
It also whistled from the beginning.


Some foils do, it is harder to create carbon pieces as much precisely as metal ones, this is why the fitting may be less perfect than alu pieces, and some may whistle depending on your way of riding.

Just perform a Donaldson trailing edge: colas.nahaboo.net/Surf/TheDonaldsonTrailingEdge

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Grantmac said..
Their older wings and stabs stood up fine. The new laminate seems to be extremely brittle.


Just to be clear for other readers: The "older" wings are still sold, they are just different lines. New lines with a different strength / drag / lift compromise are added, but do not replace the existing ones.

colas
4754 posts
22 Nov 2022 2:28PM
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To understand how Patrice may have developed a thin skin, just see this example I stumbled on minutes ago:

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Grantmac said..
I've destroyed a tail when I wasn't even riding, just touched something in the sand when walking in.


But then, Grantmac goes to the Gong Facebook Group, posts his picture, and says that he didn't hit anything, "it was just brushing sand":



Please admit that this inconsistency can be seen as a bit of bad faith: telling Patrice a different version, and then being able to maybe come back here and whine that Patrice did not want to believe you or insinuate things like "based on my previous experience with their customer service I'm not optimistic.". And it happens all the time (but not often as blatantly). This is bad for all of us because you make it harder for all brands to believe honest customers.


PS: Before posting this, I waited for Grantmac answer on the Gong FB page. I would not have posted anything if he had cleared the inconsistency, either by saying "I wasn't clear, I meant only sand" or "I wan't clear, there was something in the sand". We can all make mistakes in good faith. But he answered by not answering the question but trying twice to change the subject. Hence this post.

WhiteofHeart
761 posts
22 Nov 2022 3:40PM
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I havent been positive about Gong in the past, for me personally that is because I've ridden both the curve and rise models (from my trainees, I believe it was these two models, at least they were older and lower aspect ratio) during wingfoil coaching and was far from impressed. Didnt feel good to ride to me at all and the kit was at least twice as heavy as the F-One kit I ride myself.

I also know from experience (at F-One) that developing a good board takes time. I dont see how a small brand like Gong can develop and extensively test 10+ board models, especially since they launched pretty much the entire line at once. It took F-One all this time to end up with a 2 board lineup 3+ years in.

I do have to say the new stuff (especially "pro" foils) looks good, and ofcourse a lot can happen in terms of development in 1-2 years!

Especially the pricepoint of the boards is interesting to me, if you're looking for that extra small board you'll only use 5-10% of the sessions so it shouldnt cost 2k Gong is a very good option I think.

Grantmac
1707 posts
22 Nov 2022 3:45PM
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The older Gong foils parts were about as durable as other brands, the new stuff is clearly less durable.
If they were honest in their advertising about the weaknesses (I understand at least one other person broke their stab off) then folks could make an educated choice if that is worth it for them. The stab performed very well for the most part other than the poor fitting and whistle.

In this case I was walking my gear in with the stab forward, something I've done many times with other foils. The beach is sand, I don't know how many times I have to state that. Apparently this stab can't withstand any backwards contact even with sand. Once it's repaired I definitely won't be using it for the surf-foiling I planned instead reserving it for winging in deep water. I'll be looking for one of the older stabs instead and using that in the surf. Probably going to skip the HA front wing in the surf as well since it's the same material.

If I ran a company making equipment I'd want to address durability issues with new releases, especially if the production was happening half way around the world without any direct control over quality control.

I realize attempting to get you to agree with anything even slightly critical of Gong is useless, your opinion is bought and paid for.

colas
4754 posts
22 Nov 2022 5:40PM
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WhiteofHeart said..
I dont see how a small brand like Gong can develop and extensively test 10+ board models, especially since they launched pretty much the entire line at once.


[1] Gong is not a small brand if you consider the size of the R&D department, which is what you need to develop boards.
Even in 2011, with 3 employees, a new line of more than 20 totally new SUP boards was developed and released at once.

[2] You can track on the Gong forum the announcements of boards. You can see that they were progressively developed along the years. First there was only the SUPs with boxes like the Mob2Taste, then the Zuma in 2018, then the year after the Flint, then the Lance, etc...
The Zuma being available in 2018, it means it started being developed in 2017, 5 years ago.

[3] Gong does not work by years. New models can evolve at any time, some boards can change every 3 months, making for a faster development time.

colas
4754 posts
22 Nov 2022 5:48PM
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Grantmac said..
The beach is sand, I don't know how many times I have to state that.


I live in Hossegor, on a 100km stretch of pure sand.
But it can have small rocks brought in by the current.
A board can definitely hit something in a pure sand beach.

But this is not the issue.
The issue is you telling two different things "it hit something in the sand" and "just brushing sand" in two different forums, refusing to clarify, and trying to pretend the answer to one was an answer to the other.
Does the last post above means you are sure you only hit the sand, not "something in the sand"? Then just say so.


This is not to determine if you lied or not, I have no way to tell. I was just pointing how these inconsistencies can make brands suspicious.

Grantmac
1707 posts
22 Nov 2022 6:02PM
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Our water isn't clear enough to see your feet when walking but it's a sand beach and regardless of rock or sand a trailing edge shouldn't delaminate like that from a walking speed hit.

After the treatment I got on the Gong FB page I'm unlikely to continue with the brand which is unfortunate since I have been offering demos locally and was going to get an HM mast plus another H series wing. But a product is only as good as the people who stand behind it.

kvek
58 posts
23 Nov 2022 11:18PM
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Grantmac said..
Our water isn't clear enough to see your feet when walking but it's a sand beach and regardless of rock or sand a trailing edge shouldn't delaminate like that from a walking speed hit.

After the treatment I got on the Gong FB page I'm unlikely to continue with the brand which is unfortunate since I have been offering demos locally and was going to get an HM mast plus another H series wing. But a product is only as good as the people who stand behind it.


I use "non-pro" Gong foils and stubs and I must admit that I managed to scratch those a lot. However, something like the damage visible in the picture didn't happen to my equipment, no matter how much I abused it. Based on the image, it is hard to believe that it wasn't caused by a strong shock. However, I guess you would notice such a strong shock so it could be some bad luck during your equipment manufacture.

Hope you will have better luck with the rest of your equipment, Gong or non-Gong :)
Just don't let this keep you away from the water - repair this with a bit of epoxy, use other foils and keep enjoying this beautiful sport.

I had an issue with my new Gong board being lost in transit. Unfortunately, I had to wait for the shipment company to admit their mistake. After that, the board arrived within a week. I had better luck with the support, they were nice and helpful, though, I still had to ride my old board for maybe two more months - luckily I had an old board to ride :)

Fishdude
210 posts
24 Nov 2022 6:37AM
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I notice in the contest that the French were the majority of competitors. It seemed like almost everybody had a cool French accent.
Even the one guy who lived in Australia was French. Is winging in France mandatory?

It would be interesting to know where the highest concentration of wingers are. I would have guessed Hawaii but it looks like i would be wrong.

ArthurAlston
NSW, 82 posts
24 Nov 2022 10:21AM
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Fishdude said..
I notice in the contest that the French were the majority of competitors. It seemed like almost everybody had a cool French accent.
Even the one guy who lived in Australia was French. Is winging in France mandatory?

It would be interesting to know where the highest concentration of wingers are. I would have guessed Hawaii but it looks like i would be wrong.


I also observed this. As far as I am aware, the French are fanatical about water sports. It goes back many years and well before winging came onto the scene. Consequently, they also have many companies making equipment to meet both local and global demand. All the better for us.

Grantmac
1707 posts
24 Nov 2022 12:58PM
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kvek said..

Grantmac said..
Our water isn't clear enough to see your feet when walking but it's a sand beach and regardless of rock or sand a trailing edge shouldn't delaminate like that from a walking speed hit.

After the treatment I got on the Gong FB page I'm unlikely to continue with the brand which is unfortunate since I have been offering demos locally and was going to get an HM mast plus another H series wing. But a product is only as good as the people who stand behind it.



I use "non-pro" Gong foils and stubs and I must admit that I managed to scratch those a lot. However, something like the damage visible in the picture didn't happen to my equipment, no matter how much I abused it. Based on the image, it is hard to believe that it wasn't caused by a strong shock. However, I guess you would notice such a strong shock so it could be some bad luck during your equipment manufacture.

Hope you will have better luck with the rest of your equipment, Gong or non-Gong :)
Just don't let this keep you away from the water - repair this with a bit of epoxy, use other foils and keep enjoying this beautiful sport.

I had an issue with my new Gong board being lost in transit. Unfortunately, I had to wait for the shipment company to admit their mistake. After that, the board arrived within a week. I had better luck with the support, they were nice and helpful, though, I still had to ride my old board for maybe two more months - luckily I had an old board to ride :)


The non-HA stuff is bulletproof and rides quite well, it's just fairly draggy and heavy.

I'm going to repair the stab, probably order a bigger HA front wing and maybe an HM mast too. However I'm also going to adapt a fuselage to use other stabs so I can avoid this issue. Specifically a setup where they mount on top.

colas
4754 posts
24 Nov 2022 2:04PM
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Fishdude said..
Is winging in France mandatory?


France had a Windsurfing craze in the 80s. Nearly every beachgoing family has sailboard on its car or in its backyard.
I guess a lot of coastline, long paid vacations, a mild climate, and a network of cheap sailing schools (I even had sailing courses on "Optimists" in primary school) make France a very fertile soil for Windsurfing growth.

France counted around 400 000 windsurfers in the 80s, about 8% of the global population.

Winging here seems to leverage the collective Windsurfing memories (and nautical companies) ... A lot of Wingers are happy to revive Windsurfing in this new incarnation. And although Gong does not make sailboarding gear, Patrice was an avid Windsurfer, here with a young Malo on an inflatable SUP:



Even now in 2022, France (Gruissan):

colas
4754 posts
26 Nov 2022 3:51AM
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colas said..
100% production gear.
Thats the 2023 line that is in transit now from the factory to be available in the coming days.
What Patrice said on Facebook: "next week I hope."


And... here it is, listed on the Gong site.

With even a new entry in the lineup, the Cruzader, a narrow (18" to 19"1/2 width) needle for foil downwinding...



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"Gonged" started by edham