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Shark attack at Cobblestones , Gracetown

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Created by esoom > 9 months ago, 16 Apr 2018
Razzonater
2224 posts
26 Apr 2018 2:21PM
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www.nrdc.org/experts/michael-jasny/us-navy-implicated-new-mass-stranding-whales

I dont know what military activities have been taking place down there over the last few weeks and/or in the week leading up to the stranding but high power sonar and sonar weapons make whales "deaf" and destroy there navigation ability.

There are a heap of articles once you have a look, at some stage the USA signed a document to stop doing some sonar testing near whales as they had killed off a few too many already for the public's liking.

"I am not aware of Australia's position in regards to this"

I can assume lots of things however don't want to get to vocal on the internet about the government and military in the same sentence.....................

rbl
WA, 153 posts
27 Apr 2018 12:48PM
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Seems to be a few bump offs happening and then the shark goes after the board giving time to escape,,, not sure if its just luck but pretty lucky maybe sometimes not to have shark eyes sticker or black stripes or orca pattern,, maybe its better if the board gets skunked not the human

jbshack
WA, 6913 posts
27 Apr 2018 6:48PM
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MDSXR6T said..
That's great JB, at least the testing is being done on the right species. No other species have really caused significant attacks close to shore or are overly dangerous.

Some questions you might be able to answer?
1) Has he (or anyone else) willingly tested it on themself against a white shark outside a cage? If so how many times, what locations and how many different sharks?
2) is he/they using live "bait"? If so what and under what conditions? How many tests, how many sharks? Every fisho who's targets serious fish know's that live bait gets a very different reaction to a dead bait or lure, however you can't just let them swim off, you need to attach it properly. You will also need to get it back for research and to get the devices back so might as well put it out on 130lb gear and charge someone $2k for the experience should it get taken.
3) Will there be video based evidence from several angles? A picture speaks a thousand words and a video, 10 thousand.
4) Do you trust it enough to volunteer to spend 2 or 3 days spearfishing and free diving around Salisbury Island?
5) How big is the biggest white they have tested these devices on? have they seen many in the 6m region? Anything bigger?
6) Has anyone conducting research been able to visit Salisbury Island and islands nearby if they are out there? If so have they found anything of importance?


I think you'd be pleasantly surprised to the answers to most of those questions. Dave has tested his product on GW's in NZ, South Africa, South Australia and now WA.. Why not ask him directly..

Im not going to bother answering though because I've done so many times and honestly i couldn't be bothered.

Hey if you've got a letter box, according to one expert you'll be fine

Greenroom
WA, 7608 posts
27 Apr 2018 11:57PM
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jbshack said..
Hey if you've got a letter box, according to one expert you'll be fine


You sit on a wanna be sea shepard boat and you become an expert yourself?
Just curious?

jbshack
WA, 6913 posts
28 Apr 2018 4:55PM
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Greenroom said..

jbshack said..
Hey if you've got a letter box, according to one expert you'll be fine



You sit on a wanna be sea shepard boat and you become an expert yourself?
Just curious?


I've never said im an expert, but i can research and find out facts, which is more than a few on here..

Just because people want something, or its interferes with their lives doesn't make it fact..

Bobbin
WA, 122 posts
28 Apr 2018 6:13PM
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So why don't you jump on the protect the crocodile band wagon JB ?
I watched a doco on Kakadu, there's a croc it tourist season ,BANG. Cut the tail off for the people of the land.
Another example, that black coloured croc took my dog, so jump in a helicopter and shoot it. Cut its leg off and bring it home for the dogs mother to chew on. Again a documentry with footage.
Person gets taken by a croc, we're pretty sure it's that one BANG.

Since the crocs were protected they are growing to maximum size and expanding the areas they live in.

Is is this what we have to look forward to with the GWS

jbshack
WA, 6913 posts
28 Apr 2018 7:40PM
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BTB said..
So why don't you jump on the protect the crocodile band wagon JB ?
I watched a doco on Kakadu, there's a croc it tourist season ,BANG. Cut the tail off for the people of the land.
Another example, that black coloured croc took my dog, so jump in a helicopter and shoot it. Cut its leg off and bring it home for the dogs mother to chew on. Again a documentry with footage.
Person gets taken by a croc, we're pretty sure it's that one BANG.

Since the crocs were protected they are growing to maximum size and expanding the areas they live in.

Is is this what we have to look forward to with the GWS










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For gods sake. How can you compare one animal that breeds at extremely low rates to one that breeds like rabbits..

Comments like that, just show the level of ignorance..Sorry if this hurts your feelings..



Protected since 1970, saltwater crocodiles have come back with a vengeance - the total Australian population is currently estimated to be around 100,000 in the NT alone and probably more than 150,000 Australia-wide. And with that rise in numbers has come increased fear. While attacks are still relatively rare, at about 1-2 fatalities per year on average ("There are certainly easier ways to get yourself killed," says Adam), 2014 saw four people killed in the Northern Territory - the highest number since records began, and almost a fifth of all 21 fatalities since 1974.




RELATED STORY: WA Opposition supports Government's shark strategy


RELATED STORY: Fatal shark attack prompts Falcon beach enclosure


RELATED STORY: Shark cull proposal rejected by WA Government
A new study has cast doubt on anecdotal claims of a jump in shark numbers off WA's coast, flaring renewed debate over whether the state needs to boost measures to protect swimmers.According to research published today by the CSIRO, there is no evidence of an increase in the number of great white sharks off the WA coast over the past decade.The CSIRO study estimated there are 1,460 adult white sharks as part of the south-western population, which covers an area stretching from WA's mid-west to western Victoria.

Greenroom
WA, 7608 posts
28 Apr 2018 11:15PM
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jbshack said..
I've never said im an expert,




But your arrogant and pushy posts states otherwise.
We all know that the minority speaks louder.
Give it a rest.

TimKay
752 posts
29 Apr 2018 2:33AM
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The government doesn't want to touch this issue at all due to generation easily offended

IFocus
WA, 582 posts
29 Apr 2018 6:22AM
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Greenroom said..

jbshack said..
I've never said im an expert,





But your arrogant and pushy posts states otherwise.
We all know that the minority speaks louder.
Give it a rest.


If you have a argument about the subject put it up, fact, opinion, story, humor even emotion got for it.

As for the personalising negative BS grow up you child FFS you are suppose to be a grown mature man.


Greenroom
WA, 7608 posts
29 Apr 2018 7:06AM
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No worries Constable Focus.
After a few bourbon's I got behind the keyboard and thought it was Facebook.
Naughty Greeny bad bad boy.
CULL!

IFocus
WA, 582 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:45AM
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Haha fair enough lighten up bloke life's short..................BTW you're still fu(ken wrong

Bobbin
WA, 122 posts
29 Apr 2018 9:01AM
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No feelings hurt here but you sure fired up.
Even at a slow reproduction rate the numbers will continue to increase then do we shoot problem animals which was my point.
TIme will tell.


trevor1
WA, 598 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:25PM
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jbshack said..

Razzonater said..






What I like most about these studies is that in open ocean the sharks just hang around the shark shield, they come back for the bait repeated times, and you all vouch that the shark shield works.
every test is with a static bait, no pulse no sPlashing no movement.
Further once the sharks get their and the shield is on not only do they hang around but additional sharks show up ......



Have you ever talked to anyone who does these tests

Dave is away currently but i suggest you have a chat to him, he recently has spent three weeks in at Neptune and a week recently offshore and is out their currently again..

I think you'd be surprised..


Dave is not currently away. I saw him at the Derby today. Also, he was wearing Dockers gear.

trevor1
WA, 598 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:27PM
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JB, in all scientific studies, it is important that those conducting the study have no interest in the outcome.
Sorry, but citing any work done by Dave, has no objective value.

jbshack
WA, 6913 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:44PM
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Select to expand quote
trevor1 said..
JB, in all scientific studies, it is important that those conducting the study have no interest in the outcome.
Sorry, but citing any work done by Dave, has no objective value.



Yep thats called "Independent testing". Have you not wondered by the local government has not yet included the Rpela product on the subsidies list yet.. Again, every looked into how the testing takes place, and who does it or were?

Having someone else pay to test your product is not an easy task..Remember Barnet spent $600000 testing the shark shield dive unit. Again though, if anyone bothered to follow up with Dave, instead of pretending to have a clue, i think you'd be surprised..

Razzonater
2224 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:58PM
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I would like to state that I respect what Dave is doing.
I think what Dave is doing may have more benefit than having nothing..
And I am a disbeliever in most of the technology.
Whilst I do not advocate shark shield or Dave's product nor have any interest in it I think he is doing a service to the community, out of all of the devices his is the most practical and dare I say it actually been tested at all..
I just think that people are putting so much faith in these things it may dampen the realistic chance of an encounter device or no device.
would anyone in their right mind put their faith in any electronic deterrent and go surf leftyanders on sunset this week???,,,

dave is a champion he is a inventor and a damn fine shaper, he has done more for surfers than the government has, but simply and unfortunately it's not enough.

We must hunt and kill a shark here and there it's the circle of life, if you don't quite get it watch the lion king

I came up with the idea of killer whales and over a few beers with the lads it actually makes perfect sense
will do up a few artists impressions of the enclosure and proposed hunting, training methods.
I am actively looking for a sponsor, state governments normally good at wasting a few million on less effective measures

arancini
WA, 373 posts
30 Apr 2018 8:53AM
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So if the shark repelling tech works at the micro (personal) level, ie Shark shield and repela etc, and I see one of them now has a boat deployment system that sits in a float that u hang of your vessel, why not up scale to industrial size unit or units, 10 / 20 / 100 / 1000 times capacity and run a protective cordon of buoys around specific selected areas. Maybe they get moved around so the sharks, "learn" to keep away from these areas.

Without wanting to rant, Sharks are really worrying, I was at Gearies on the weekend for the first time since I witnessed the attack on Ben, and being part of a tragedy like that really makes u re-think the issue. I still surf and so do my kids all the time, but that doubt sure leaves a second guess in the background, I don't expect to be 100% safe ever, but I strongly believe that the unofficial controls that existed (Cray and other commercial fisherman) controlled the problem sharks, since that has been removed there has been an increase.

Think we need Elon Musk on this one!

MDSXR6T
WA, 1019 posts
30 Apr 2018 12:37PM
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Select to expand quote
jbshack said..
Yep thats called "Independent testing". Have you not wondered by the local government has not yet included the Rpela product on the subsidies list yet.. Again, every looked into how the testing takes place, and who does it or were?

Having someone else pay to test your product is not an easy task..Remember Barnet spent $600000 testing the shark shield dive unit. Again though, if anyone bothered to follow up with Dave, instead of pretending to have a clue, i think you'd be surprised..


Well when the video results go viral (and a product repeatedly stopping white sharks attacking a live human will), i guess it will be guys like Razz and I with egg on our face!!

LateStarter
WA, 589 posts
30 Apr 2018 2:45PM
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It's a classic case of marketing vs science.

The shark shield website happily quote Huveneer's independent report on their website, hailing that 'no breach was observed' when towing a seal decoy behind a boat with the shark shield turned on.

What they conveniently failed to mention however, was that Huveneer concluded after 116 trials that the Sharkshield was ineffective in static testing, whereby 78 per cent of baits were taken within a 15 minute period, and that there was no noticeable difference between the unit being turned on or off.

Lucky I own a letterbox.

Legion
WA, 2222 posts
30 Apr 2018 6:31PM
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I reckon dave should politely ask bjshack to stop referencing him or his product. Unless he subscribes to the modern philosophy of "any publicity is good publicity".

oz surf
WA, 407 posts
30 Apr 2018 8:46PM
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Legion said..
I reckon dave should politely ask bjshack to stop referencing him or his product. Unless he subscribes to the modern philosophy of "any publicity is good publicity".


I did think the same. Unless JB has some financial interest in the product.

trevor1
WA, 598 posts
30 Apr 2018 9:31PM
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Maybe JB got a good deal on the trade-in of Dave's RIB that used to cart round loads of drop-in-ers to offshore line ups ...

Or perhaps on-line support in exchange for spelling and grammar lessons

Legion
WA, 2222 posts
30 Apr 2018 9:51PM
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Let me just make it clear I've got no problem with Dave. I like him and have always enjoyed talking to him and surfing with him. If I see him in the carpark or in the water we have a chat and I like to hear what he's doing with his product, with his r&d and with his boards. It's just bjshack who I think is not the best advocate. Forum sentiment indicates I'm not alone.

IFocus
WA, 582 posts
1 May 2018 6:51AM
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Select to expand quote
LateStarter said..
It's a classic case of marketing vs science.

The shark shield website happily quote Huveneer's independent report on their website, hailing that 'no breach was observed' when towing a seal decoy behind a boat with the shark shield turned on.

What they conveniently failed to mention however, was that Huveneer concluded after 116 trials that the Sharkshield was ineffective in static testing, whereby 78 per cent of baits were taken within a 15 minute period, and that there was no noticeable difference between the unit being turned on or off.

Lucky I own a letterbox.



LateStarter do you have a link to the research paper I'd be really interested in what the units output was?


Oh and the rest of you bitches ............try ballet more your sport I think

Bara
WA, 647 posts
1 May 2018 7:25AM
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Select to expand quote
IFocus said..



LateStarter said..
It's a classic case of marketing vs science.

The shark shield website happily quote Huveneer's independent report on their website, hailing that 'no breach was observed' when towing a seal decoy behind a boat with the shark shield turned on.

What they conveniently failed to mention however, was that Huveneer concluded after 116 trials that the Sharkshield was ineffective in static testing, whereby 78 per cent of baits were taken within a 15 minute period, and that there was no noticeable difference between the unit being turned on or off.

Lucky I own a letterbox.






LateStarter do you have a link to the research paper I'd be really interested in what the units output was?


Oh and the rest of you bitches ............try ballet more your sport I think




Lol on the one hand per jb if you want risk reduction action taken on sharks your stupid for going surfing in salmon season ( 3 months) and then whale season ( 3 months) and on the other hand dinosaurs like you reckon we are gay if we dont go for a surf.

Too funny.

DARTH
WA, 3028 posts
1 May 2018 8:01AM
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Select to expand quote
IFocus said..

LateStarter said..
It's a classic case of marketing vs science.

The shark shield website happily quote Huveneer's independent report on their website, hailing that 'no breach was observed' when towing a seal decoy behind a boat with the shark shield turned on.

What they conveniently failed to mention however, was that Huveneer concluded after 116 trials that the Sharkshield was ineffective in static testing, whereby 78 per cent of baits were taken within a 15 minute period, and that there was no noticeable difference between the unit being turned on or off.

Lucky I own a letterbox.




LateStarter do you have a link to the research paper I'd be really interested in what the units output was?


Oh and the rest of you bitches ............try ballet more your sport I think


LateStarter
WA, 589 posts
1 May 2018 8:25AM
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IFocus said..
LateStarter do you have a link to the research paper I'd be really interested in what the units output was?



Charlie Huveneer's Report:
pir.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/232235/Risk_Assessment_of_the_Shark_Shield_Report_-_FINAL_19_06_2012.pdf

Here are some others worth reading:
- Estimating the probability of a shark attack when using an electric repellent - Smit and Peddemors 2003
- Effects of the Shark ShieldTM electric deterrent on the behaviour of white sharks - SARDI 2012
- Effects of an electric field on white sharks: In situ testing of an electric deterrent - Plos one 2013
- How close is too close? The Effect of a Non-Lethal Electric Shark Deterrent on White Shark Behaviour - Plos one 2016

IFocus
WA, 582 posts
1 May 2018 9:10AM
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LateStarter said..

IFocus said..
LateStarter do you have a link to the research paper I'd be really interested in what the units output was?




Charlie Huveneer's Report:
pir.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/232235/Risk_Assessment_of_the_Shark_Shield_Report_-_FINAL_19_06_2012.pdf

Here are some others worth reading:
- Estimating the probability of a shark attack when using an electric repellent - Smit and Peddemors 2003
- Effects of the Shark ShieldTM electric deterrent on the behaviour of white sharks - SARDI 2012
- Effects of an electric field on white sharks: In situ testing of an electric deterrent - Plos one 2013
- How close is too close? The Effect of a Non-Lethal Electric Shark Deterrent on White Shark Behaviour - Plos one 2016


Thanks will have a read though later.

Cheers

IFocus
WA, 582 posts
1 May 2018 12:51PM
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Hey LateStarter thanks again for taking the effort and your valuable time to post the research papers just quickly browsed the UWA and Charlie Huveneers .

A few things jumped out at me (my bias and electrical background)

The technology has an effect both papers alluded to this.

Charlie Huveneers however did not measure the output. He seems to mention this as an afterthought in his summary.

The bait / deterrent orientation to me seemed a bit "dicky" particularly the towed decoy test.

UWA study measured the unit output then made assumptions which I think is a failure. As the efficacy of the unit is based wholly on the electrical field continuous measurement should have been done as there is no guarantee unit output performs consistently in all conditions, battery charge etc.

All in all there was nothing new but going by the posts here clearly there is a lot of resistance to using the deterrents the reasons as I remember are uncannily similar to the start of compulsory seatbelts.

That's a real shame as a cull isn't going to happen, drum lines some time away who knows when or if and even if they come only some areas will benefit leaving many of us still be exposed.

I think deterrents are the way to go and for the required development / R&D / progress there needs to be viable sales / uptake so new entrants are attracted to come in with better ideas product and we end up with a I Phone equivalent tech.

But as they say, "your dreaming"

I had one comment the other day "why should tax payers stump up the bill for the recreation of small bunch bludgers"



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"Shark attack at Cobblestones , Gracetown" started by esoom