I spend more time in flat water than waves, due to local geography and wind.
I've owned Lift, Armstrong, Axis, Moses, and now riding GoFoil.
Where GoFoil wins winging flat water, is pitch control. There is nothing easier pushing speed to the limit than GoFoil.
As for all the wings being close in top speed. Same with the other brands. HPS and ART pushed to the max, is only 1 mph different in flat water.
I'm blow away that I can ride the GoFoil long fuselage setup (FTL) for high speed control, yet turn and surf better than much shorter fuselages on those other brands.
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
I spend more time in flat water than waves, due to local geography and wind.
I've owned Lift, Armstrong, Axis, Moses, and now riding GoFoil.
Where GoFoil wins winging flat water, is pitch control. There is nothing easier pushing speed to the limit than GoFoil.
As for all the wings being close in top speed. Same with the other brands. HPS and ART pushed to the max, is only 1 mph different in flat water.
I'm blow away that I can ride the GoFoil long fuselage setup (FTL) for high speed control, yet turn and surf better than much shorter fuselages on those other brands.
Interesting about Axis, thanks. A mate at the local has Moses winging and he's faster for sure. I use Moses kiting too.
I'm thinking for more speed is it better to use a KD tail as opposed to going to a FTL12.5 as it's basically the same surf shape and not built for speed.
GF does turn very nice indeed and tbh I'd hardly fall anymore when breaching and can recover 98% of the time if I do.
Select to expand quotenorth_kiter said..DWF said..
I spend more time in flat water than waves, due to local geography and wind.
I've owned Lift, Armstrong, Axis, Moses, and now riding GoFoil.
Where GoFoil wins winging flat water, is pitch control. There is nothing easier pushing speed to the limit than GoFoil.
As for all the wings being close in top speed. Same with the other brands. HPS and ART pushed to the max, is only 1 mph different in flat water.
I'm blow away that I can ride the GoFoil long fuselage setup (FTL) for high speed control, yet turn and surf better than much shorter fuselages on those other brands.
Interesting about Axis, thanks. A mate at the local has Moses winging and he's faster for sure. I use Moses kiting too.
I'm thinking for more speed is it better to use a KD tail as opposed to going to a FTL12.5 as it's basically the same surf shape and not built for speed.
GF does turn very nice indeed and tbh I'd hardly fall anymore when breaching and can recover 98% of the time if I do.
I have a cut down SPG tail (13 inches) on the pedestal and it is noticeably faster that the FTL14.5. Use the shims of the KD site to tune it. Do not use the set up now if anyone interested in it PM me.
I am wondering what speeds you're looking for. I once couldn't push my foils beyond 30k/h now I can do 38k/h on the same foils and I am sure as time goes by I will get faster as I get better but I won't be doing the @30 knots that Alex pushes some of these same foils to. Once I realised my smaller foils went no faster than my larger ones I realised I was of course the limiting factor.
In my experience flat water is way easier to get on foil in marginal conditions than in ocean chop and currents.
I also pay full price for my foil equipment.
Tails are key to speed. When I was riding Axis, the release of the Progressive tails increased the top speed of every front wing.
Someone should ask Alex what tail he used to hit 30 knots with the tiny RS sizes. I'm sure he will respond on Facebook.
I'm happy with the current setup for now.
a mixture of sessions and speed with gt1400/rs1075/Rs1150. Max speed is over 500m when pushing it, but all my averages are around 20 kmph doesn't matter what foil or fts/ftl 14.5 tail, I think that is GF built in speed range, would prefer 20-25kn or 37+kmph average speed, maybe the new mast and a tail upgrade will deliver that. Can't race with GF.
I go 25-30 knots kite foiling regularly.
Select to expand quotestroppo said..hilly said..
Tails make a dramatic difference with the RS1075.
14.5FTL glide and flowy
14.5FTS quicker turning, less glide
12.5FTL faster, pitch sensitive
Have not tried the 20FTL yet but it could work well in light wind and tiny swell.
Goldilocks for me was the 14.5FTS in 20 knots with overhead waves.
Then they brought out the 17. Hmmm.
That's interesting
I've run the 20ftl on the rs1000 definitely made it fly easier but took the top end out
I'm interested about your experience with the RS1000 and 20ftl combination. I tried the GT1400 with the 20ftl and it generates an awful amount of lift. To much in the waves, and it makes the combo very difficult to turn.
It's a good combination for downwind as it pumps easier.
What about turning with the rs1000-20 combo?
Select to expand quotenorth_kiter said..
a mixture of sessions and speed with gt1400/rs1075/Rs1150. Max speed is over 500m when pushing it, but all my averages are around 20 kmph doesn't matter what foil or fts/ftl 14.5 tail, I think that is GF built in speed range, would prefer 20-25kn or 37+kmph average speed, maybe the new mast and a tail upgrade will deliver that. Can't race with GF.
I go 25-30 knots kite foiling regularly.
Try a smaller tail than 14.5.
for speed try the rs650 with a 12.5 tail. I am 105kg and could get up ok and it felt smoking fast.
Select to expand quote
north_kiter said..
a mixture of sessions and speed with gt1400/rs1075/Rs1150. Max speed is over 500m when pushing it, but all my averages are around 20 kmph doesn't matter what foil or fts/ftl 14.5 tail, I think that is GF built in speed range, would prefer 20-25kn or 37+kmph average speed, maybe the new mast and a tail upgrade will deliver that. Can't race with GF.
I go 25-30 knots kite foiling regularly.
The smaller the foil the faster it will go as long as you have the wing power to carry your weight. The issue is the fastest the foil the harder it is to start.
These speeds indicate that you are well well under the limitation of your foils.
What you are reaching is the limitation of your technique and power for your weight. Technique will come with time obviously. Power will come with better technique that gives comfort to size bigger wings in the same conditions.
the rs1150 and it's siblings are actually very easy foils to start so your struggle suggests technique and power are the things to work on. Again bigger wing for the conditions is the easiest step.
You should try your friends gear but you will find the same issues and limitations with all the major brands. I still believe gofoil has by far the best range for heavy wingers.
It seems like a lot of serious racers in the US use mikes lab foils but these will be a lot harder to start and ride than something like the rs1150. Very high stall speed. They seem to be on 600 and 800 cmsq foils and very big wings for the conditions.
Hope you find what your looking for.
@hilly smaller tail may work but not in the same surf design as the FT range. It would not be possible at my weight to easily use a RS650 so out of the question.
@anyboard not sure it's my experience or technique, 2 years winging, heel/toe side tacks etc, 2 years advanced kite foiler, 20+ years advanced kiter twintip, and yacht sailer/racer. I can go faster if I bear away from the wind, but thats not how you race right, well a few legs will be like in a windward-leeward course but the others will be beating upwind, and racing is just like as some say mowing the lawn, but typically I beat upwind and carve the bumps downwind. Good idea trying other gear. The RS1150 is fine from 15kn for me wing power only with 6.5m wing, be much lower wind for you as you are 20+ kgs lighter than me.
I thought it weird the gap between RS650 and RS1000 and was hoping the RS850 was like the CAB800/1000, but I was disappointed when the release came as the RS850 doesn't even belong in the RS range, should be the HA range. So there is still a gap in the RS range between RS650 and RS1000. Brands from my experience, with 3 now, do very funny things indeed. Others bash axis for quality etc (never ridden/owned them) but at least axis does a foil in every range to cater for all weight classes.
When I say flat water, it's botany bay so it doesn't stay flat for long, once wind gets past 17-18kn, becomes 1-3ft messy wind, tide chop and generating board speed in this sea state is near impossible.
I think all wings have a cruising speed range right, just like planes, they design their wings for a particular cruising speed for fuel efficiency, so the same would be true for foils. I'd probably say that GF are designed for the wave speed on maui, makes sense right 
to cruise on the wave, and if designed for a faster cruising speed they will outrun the wave.
I think from my experience that this is the cruising speed of GF wings, unless my fenix is wrong.
Could be to do with the mast or as the new buzz word is right now the `foil section`, the foil, or the tail. Easiest for me is to try a different tail outside of GF surf tail offerings.
It'd be interesting to see the stats of other riders wing foiling only with no wave assist at all to see if I'm right or not.
I started on Moses, then Armstrong and I think these were faster average speeds for sure but this was pre my fenix so no empirical evidence to back that up.
Will disagree, I find the GF stuff fast. Strava speeds, passing people and comments from others back that up.
I would have thought the 850 would be perfect in Botany Bay.
A longer narrower board would help you get up on the 650. The fast guys here like Bastion are on <600 cm kite foils
Try a SPG race tail, this one is available pm me if you want it 
So just had a typical sydney sketchy session, GT1400, FTL14.5, 83mast, 141L kalama, 6.5m slick sls, really hard work so gusty!
@hilly we have such a different experience, have to agree to disagree on this one
GT foils are just as fast as the RS and have the same average speed wing foiling with no wave assist in my experience.
I would say the RS or race series branding is marketing mumbo jumbo, just another foil that is thinner than the GT line.
I would expect a race foil to have an average speed closer to 20 knots, which none of the RS/GT foils that I have had are capable of.
Don't get me wrong, not brand bashing at all, just facts.
I think D kalama and the other maui guys clock good average speeds is because they are going with wind and swell and the mast isn't pushing sideways against the water on a beat, but I could be wrong.
airport is about 5km away
Select to expand quotenorth_kiter said..
So just had a typical sydney sketchy session, GT1400, FTL14.5, 83mast, 141L kalama, 6.5m slick sls, really hard work so gusty!
@hilly we have such a different experience, have to agree to disagree on this one
GT foils are just as fast as the RS and have the same average speed wing foiling with no wave assist in my experience.
I would say the RS or race series branding is marketing mumbo jumbo, just another foil that is thinner than the GT line.
I would expect a race foil to have an average speed closer to 20 knots, which none of the RS/GT foils that I have had are capable of.
Don't get me wrong, not brand bashing at all, just facts.
I think D kalama and the other maui guys clock good average speeds is because they are going with wind and swell and the mast isn't pushing against the water, but I could be wrong.
airport is about 5km away
Both using 6m wing and 14ftl tail in tiny swell so just wind waves. One RS850 the other GT1400 which I find have similar lift off speeds. Pick which is which.
yeah tiny swell will give you added speed for sure, but that just backs up what I've been saying all GF foils have the same speed within a couple of km/ph, whether in RS range or GT.
So envious of your WA conditions...
Select to expand quotenorth_kiter said..
yeah tiny swell will give you added speed for sure, but that just backs up what I've been saying all GF foils have the same speed within a couple of km/ph, whether in RS range or GT.
So envious of your WA conditions...
Average speed 3kph faster is pretty significant doing short in and out runs. Feels way faster.
Select to expand quotenorth_kiter said..
yeah tiny swell will give you added speed for sure, but that just backs up what I've been saying all GF foils have the same speed within a couple of km/ph, whether in RS range or GT.
So envious of your WA conditions..
Your comments around the design speeds of gofoil wings is just so wrong about any foil brand. It is actually against the laws of physics.
Also when travelling down wind the water is not actually moving with you creating less drag on the mast. In Maui or anywhere for that matter, after you ride a wave you have to wing upwind through the sweep and ocean wave energy so much worse off than bay chop in botany upwind.
At 100kgs you're expecting a lot from the sport of wingfoiling. As you're already on your third brand of foil I think you should just buy a mike's lab and be done with it. Then you will have no excuses as these are known as the fastest in the business. You may find a 6.5 m slick won't go much faster up wind than your currently doing so you will need some better wings also.
I can make one more suggestion. 140 litre board is a massive drag when heading upwind. You could shave 60 litres off that easily with your experience. You won't be able to slog waiting for a gust but you will still have the same bottom end with good technique.
Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..north_kiter said..
yeah tiny swell will give you added speed for sure, but that just backs up what I've been saying all GF foils have the same speed within a couple of km/ph, whether in RS range or GT.
So envious of your WA conditions..
Your comments around the design speeds of gofoil wings is just so wrong about any foil brand. It is actually against the laws of physics.
Also when travelling down wind the water is not actually moving with you creating less drag on the mast. In Maui or anywhere for that matter, after you ride a wave you have to wing upwind through the sweep and ocean wave energy so much worse off than bay chop in botany upwind.
At 100kgs you're expecting a lot from the sport of wingfoiling. As you're already on your third brand of foil I think you should just buy a mike's lab and be done with it. Then you will have no excuses as these are known as the fastest in the business. You may find a 6.5 m slick won't go much faster up wind than your currently doing so you will need some better wings also.
I can make one more suggestion. 140 litre board is a massive drag when heading upwind. You could shave 60 litres off that easily with your experience. You won't be able to slog waiting for a gust but you will still have the same bottom end with good technique.
I guess we all have our opinions and that's what good about forums and if you disagree with me well I'm ok with that, I standby what I have said about the speed of the wings, but I'm not here to argue with anyone. Even the stats that @hilly shared proved it too.
I'd say you are incorrect about recommending to drop down in board size, sure I know the big board has more drag but I've tried in Sydney 95L, 85L, 56L boards and all are a hard no go (except for a couple of exceptional NE sea breezes) as our conditions are just so sketchy. If I lived in Maui or WA I'd have a 50L for sure. You obviously have a different experience being 20+kgs lighter than me so everything is 20%+ easier for you.
The sport is all about being on foil and not struggling to get on foil. I could only just get going this morning, I've learnt the hard, frustrating and expensive way. You're close to Botany bay, I recommend you try and you'll soon see how sketchy it is for winging.
I've found for foil selection, every 100cm of foil is equal to 10Kg of weight as a rough guide, that's why 70-85kg riders like the CAB 800/RS850, and I prefer the RS1075.
100kgs isn't that heavy, loads of guys heavier than me, but heavier guys need good strong gear and efficient fast wings with little drag.
I'm 115 kg I'm getting plenty of speed out of my rs range
I use a approved gps the same as sail rocket the current holder of the speed record for sail power I've got low 26kts in flat water on my rs1150 and in the ocean mid 25kts on my rs1000 and rs650 which has a lot more to give but I need to get better to be able to control it
move pulled mid 23kts on my gt1400 and 22kts on my gt1770
I've ridden the new rs1075 but could only get mid 23kts but it rips on the waves
I haven't had the chance to try a rs850 yet but I'm sure it will have plenty of speed in it
Im super happy with go foil after changing from Armstrong way more simple to assemble and way stiffer especially for my weight I sure can't complain about there products and it's capabilities
This is my sesh on the rs1000 and 650 on Monday just gone
6m sail 140ltr board
@stroppo some nice speeds for sure and on a 140L board, in WA you guys are so lucky with your conditions, btw what's the average speed for the session?
I remember listening to a podcast somewhere and D kalama said heavier guys have an advantage foiling once up for speed.
When you hit the top speeds, what reach or point of sail are you on? If you're not sure just google "sailing angle".
With the mowing the lawn without wave assist speeds that I have mentioned it has always been on a close-reach or close-haul, and max speeds on a beam-reach to broad-reach.
The issue where I am is when the wind gets > 20 knots the sea state becomes too difficult to go fast and pitch control becomes the issue.
Select to expand quotenorth_kiter said..
@stroppo some nice speeds for sure and on a 140L board, in WA you guys are so lucky with your conditions, btw what's the average speed for the session?
I remember listening to a podcast somewhere and D kalama said heavier guys have an advantage foiling once up for speed.
When you hit the top speeds, what reach or point of sail are you on? If you're not sure just google "sailing angle".
With the mowing the lawn without wave assist speeds that I have mentioned it has always been on a close-reach or close-haul, and max speeds on a beam-reach to broad-reach.
The issue where I am is when the wind gets > 20 knots the sea state becomes too difficult to go fast and pitch control becomes the issue.
Yeah I'm sailing on quite tight reaches in the ocean but in the flat water I tend to go a bit more broad if I'm powered up enough also no foot straps
Stroppo, do you adjust the mast position for the 650 vs 1150?
I have to move the mast back about 2cm for the 850 vs the 1150 but I'm using front straps. Then when I start pushing the 850 for speed I would need to either move forward on the board (can't / straps) or move the mast even further back. The 1150 doesn't seem to need adjustment through it's speed range.
Select to expand quoteThatspec said..
Stroppo, do you adjust the mast position for the 650 vs 1150?
I have to move the mast back about 2cm for the 850 vs the 1150 but I'm using front straps. Then when I start pushing the 850 for speed I would need to either move forward on the board (can't / straps) or move the mast even further back. The 1150 doesn't seem to need adjustment through it's speed range.
Nah I leave the mast in the same position as im not using footstraps but I did find that with the 650 I needed to stand about a inch more forward which is hard to believe with such a small foil but that thing has plenty of lift once you get it up to speed all my fast runs we're heading out to sea so had no extra speed from the seaway.
Select to expand quotestroppo said..Thatspec said..
Stroppo, do you adjust the mast position for the 650 vs 1150?
I have to move the mast back about 2cm for the 850 vs the 1150 but I'm using front straps. Then when I start pushing the 850 for speed I would need to either move forward on the board (can't / straps) or move the mast even further back. The 1150 doesn't seem to need adjustment through it's speed range.
Nah I leave the mast in the same position as im not using footstraps but I did find that with the 650 I needed to stand about a inch more forward which is hard to believe with such a small foil but that thing has plenty of lift once you get it up to speed all my fast runs we're heading out to sea so had no extra speed from the seaway.
26 kts! That's some serious speed, especially without foot straps. Are you using a harness?
Select to expand quoteHwy1North said..stroppo said..Thatspec said..
Stroppo, do you adjust the mast position for the 650 vs 1150?
I have to move the mast back about 2cm for the 850 vs the 1150 but I'm using front straps. Then when I start pushing the 850 for speed I would need to either move forward on the board (can't / straps) or move the mast even further back. The 1150 doesn't seem to need adjustment through it's speed range.
Nah I leave the mast in the same position as im not using footstraps but I did find that with the 650 I needed to stand about a inch more forward which is hard to believe with such a small foil but that thing has plenty of lift once you get it up to speed all my fast runs we're heading out to sea so had no extra speed from the seaway.
26 kts! That's some serious speed, especially without foot straps. Are you using a harness?
Yeah I use a harness but unhook when I fully send it
Great comments as always.
My 2c is wind is wind. Having spent years windsurfing and then kiting Botany Bay I can't imagine the water or wind is any different. I find the following are comfortable speeds;
Rs1075 45kmh
Rs1000 good for about 43-45km/h
850 38-40
650 45-47
500 47ish
The fastest straight line still goes to the NL130 at 27kts but it was damn hard to control. Most of the above speeds are wave and wing speeds. I'm sure if you get up close to the runway and bear away you will be amazed at the speed. I don't find the 850 has a huge top end but the ability for it to traverse a massive range of speeds and be 850 is really amazing. For me it has more bottom end than a 1400 but less top end.
I'm sure that Alex mentioned he ran a 500/12.5L in a podcast when he won a race a while back and Alan Cadiz was on a tkr80.
Happy hunting.
Rich
Select to expand quoteRichJam said..
Great comments as always.
My 2c is wind is wind. Having spent years windsurfing and then kiting Botany Bay I can't imagine the water or wind is any different. I find the following are comfortable speeds;
Rs1075 45kmh
Rs1000 good for about 43-45km/h
850 38-40
650 45-47
500 47ish
The fastest straight line still goes to the NL130 at 27kts but it was damn hard to control. Most of the above speeds are wave and wing speeds. I'm sure if you get up close to the runway and bear away you will be amazed at the speed. I don't find the 850 has a huge top end but the ability for it to traverse a massive range of speeds and be 850 is really amazing. For me it has more bottom end than a 1400 but less top end.
I'm sure that Alex mentioned he ran a 500/12.5L in a podcast when he won a race a while back and Alan Cadiz was on a tkr80.
Happy hunting.
Rich
These speeds aren't overly crazy. In fact I'd say they're somewhat lower than I'd expect given the cm2 sizing. That being said - these are and remain to be surf foils, designed to turn and jump. They're great for this.
Whilst it's been suggested to @North_kiter to get a MikesLab. Many people have purchased these foils, and remained slow. I'd say sadly you're probably going to fall into this category. These are great foils, but I'd say keep with what's working for you now. At your size, you have a righting moment advantage yet still not translating into speed. Focus on having fun and not kph. You'll surprise yourself!
Select to expand quoteRichJam said..850 is really amazing. For me it has more bottom end than a 1400 but less top end.
Yep as said in a post above 850/1075 quiver would be awesome. The only advantage the 1400 has on the 850 is it more controllable dropping into solid swell. No Rich I do not want to buy more tails.
Time for me to bow out me thinks, I have the opposite experience of the WA crew and those who are all wave assist, flat water wing power is a complete different story., 100% not hitting the speeds said in this thread, not even close. You guys are so lucky to have waves!
Select to expand quotenorth_kiter said..
Time for me to bow out me thinks, I have the opposite experience of the WA crew and those who are all wave assist, flat water wing power is a complete different story., 100% not hitting the speeds said in this thread, not even close. You guys are so lucky to have waves!
Next time I'm over on the east coast I'll drag some gear and we will go drag racing.
GoFoil Oz is in town from Thursday. Me thinks some drag racing should be done to see what we can get out of these foils.
I would be happy to crack 30kts on the 650 and 32 on the 500.
