Forums > Kitesurfing Victoria

Bad experience at Kiddies Pool

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Created by Peterc150 > 9 months ago, 14 Mar 2017
Peterc150
VIC, 710 posts
14 Mar 2017 12:07PM
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I went to St Kilda with my family, dog & kiting gear yesterday. We went to the beach near Catanhi Gardens for a quick swim. There were several people swimming, dogs in the water and quite a few people on the beach sunbathing.

Unfortunately several competent kiters were tacking fairly close the beach and passing swimmers very close at speed.

80+kg of rider, the power of a 12m kite, a board with sharp edges and fins and 15km speed. What could possibly go wrong?

Some were also doing some biggish jumps in the shallow water close to the beach and walkers. One jumped and crashed his kite in the water right next the beach only meters from sunbathers. Powered up kite lines can do terrible things to human flesh.

A couple of guys kited right past my daughter who was snorkelling in about 0.5m of water. I yelled at them to piss off and follow the 5 knots within 50m of a swimmer boating law. They seemed surprised and yet they came back again!

My daughter said she was scared by the kiters coming so close and them razzing up the dog.

A lady walking her dog approached me and said she had asked a kiter to keep his kite away from her children on the beach and the dogs in the water, she was ignored too.

This dangerous and unnecessary behaviour will result in formal complaints and attention by authorities if it continues. Its not cool. If we in the kiting community can't self regulate and kite safely then we will be regulated. I have photos and videos of this nonsense.

If the kiters concerned were 80m further out (as many were) there would have been no problem. Some of them ended up out there anyway.

If you kite there be considerate of other water users. It would be a real shame if a few kiters stuffed up kiting at St Kilda for us all.

I then had a nice session from St Kilda West beach out past the breakwater and briefly into the kiddies pool.

MarkusKarkus
VIC, 35 posts
15 Mar 2017 10:31PM
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Is the kiddy pool in the wind sport designated area? Where does this area start? At the water line or at the buoy? Are swimmers allowed in a wind sport area? I'm asking because I want to know the law. I'm not questioning your argument.

StKKiter
VIC, 65 posts
15 Mar 2017 11:50PM
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I wasn't there, and am not in anyway defending kiters going close to swimmers, but being a Kiter, knowing it is one of the few flat water kite spots on the bay and busy, why on earth would you take your kid there?

harry potter
VIC, 2665 posts
15 Mar 2017 11:59PM
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^^^ he does have a point

Saffer
VIC, 4462 posts
16 Mar 2017 10:32AM
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Were the kiters wrong? 100%. Swimmers are ignorant and if they are swimming in a designated kiting area, unfortunately kiters get punished.

Would I take my kids to a designated kiting area knowing what the show ponies at St Kilda are like on the best of days? No way in hell!

It doesn't take away the onus on the kiters to do the right thing, but I still don't think it's a smart move. It's the same as a pedestrian crossing. I assume people are going to stop but I don't walk across until I know they are slowing down at least because all it takes is one idiot to be looking at his cell phone and we're in trouble. You can't argue from heaven that you were right.

Kamikuza
QLD, 5051 posts
16 Mar 2017 10:38PM
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No **** that--if there's a designated areas for X activity and you're in there doing Y, the problem is not with person doing X.

Peterc150
VIC, 710 posts
22 Mar 2017 9:08AM
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Shared Wind Sport Area - this zone provides an area for kite boarding, sail boarding and other wind based boating which may exceed 5 knots except within 50m proximity to other vessels and swimmers. Other vessels are permitted in this area.

www.parks.vic.gov.au/water-management/boating-and-swimming-zones

A Shared Wind Sport Area does not provide exclusive access to windsports and exclude others such as swimmers.

Any kiter exceeding 5 knots within 50m of any swimmer is breaking the law - in or out of a shared windsports zone.

I really don't think its appropriate for kiters to put others at risk under the mistaken belief they have exclusive access to an area. Lots of tourists and locals use this beach too.

If this behaviour continues and complaints are made to the Council and/or Police or Parks Vic its possible kiters will be banned from this location.

I won't allow my daughter to swim there again as I don't want put her at risk of death or injury. Show ponies crashing their kites on sunbathers on the beach pose similar risks.

Smithy
VIC, 828 posts
22 Mar 2017 7:21PM
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Peterc150 said..
Shared Wind Sport Area - this zone provides an area for kite boarding, sail boarding and other wind based boating which may exceed 5 knots except within 50m proximity to other vessels and swimmers. Other vessels are permitted in this area.

www.parks.vic.gov.au/water-management/boating-and-swimming-zones

A Shared Wind Sport Area does not provide exclusive access to windsports and exclude others such as swimmers.

Any kiter exceeding 5 knots within 50m of any swimmer is breaking the law - in or out of a shared windsports zone.

I really don't think its appropriate for kiters to put others at risk under the mistaken belief they have exclusive access to an area. Lots of tourists and locals use this beach too.

If this behaviour continues and complaints are made to the Council and/or Police or Parks Vic its possible kiters will be banned from this location.

I won't allow my daughter to swim there again as I don't want put her at risk of death or injury. Show ponies crashing their kites on sunbathers on the beach pose similar risks.


Not withstanding the dangerous behaviour you may have observed, for which there is no excuse.

You are 100% correct regarding the 5 knot / 50m rules and it is the fact that you understand it that I find your actions somewhat bizarre and inconsiderate to your fellow kiteboarders.

As a kiteboarder you are aware how few wind sport areas there are and yet you chose to take your family to swim in one such area expecting your fellow kiters to yield to your presence and all move away and slow down. Why would you do that? It is difficult enough with the average punter who doesn't know the rules.

Peterc150
VIC, 710 posts
23 Mar 2017 8:26AM
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Smithy said..


Peterc150 said..
Shared Wind Sport Area - this zone provides an area for kite boarding, sail boarding and other wind based boating which may exceed 5 knots except within 50m proximity to other vessels and swimmers. Other vessels are permitted in this area.

www.parks.vic.gov.au/water-management/boating-and-swimming-zones

A Shared Wind Sport Area does not provide exclusive access to windsports and exclude others such as swimmers.

Any kiter exceeding 5 knots within 50m of any swimmer is breaking the law - in or out of a shared windsports zone.

I really don't think its appropriate for kiters to put others at risk under the mistaken belief they have exclusive access to an area. Lots of tourists and locals use this beach too.

If this behaviour continues and complaints are made to the Council and/or Police or Parks Vic its possible kiters will be banned from this location.

I won't allow my daughter to swim there again as I don't want put her at risk of death or injury. Show ponies crashing their kites on sunbathers on the beach pose similar risks.




Not withstanding the dangerous behaviour you may have observed, for which there is no excuse.

You are 100% correct regarding the 5 knot / 50m rules and it is the fact that you understand it that I find your actions somewhat bizarre and inconsiderate to your fellow kiteboarders.

As a kiteboarder you are aware how few wind sport areas there are and yet you chose to take your family to swim in one such area expecting your fellow kiters to yield to your presence and all move away and slow down. Why would you do that? It is difficult enough with the average punter who doesn't know the rules.



Its seems you and a few others here want to attack and blame me for the irresponsible actions of a few apparently ignorant kitesurfers? I don't accept that.

We wanted to walk and swim our dog and my daughter wanted to splash in the shallows (about 0.5m). There was group of about 6 people swimming about 50m away.

There were lots of people wading in the shallows walking their dogs - similarly concerned by the action of the kitesurfers.

Then there were all the beach goers (100+) at serious risk from a powered up crashed kite and or lines hitting them.

There was all the area out past the sandbank for kiters and absolutely NO reason for them to be weaving around swimmers that were clearly visible.

So the scores were:
* about 100+ people on the beach
* 15 odd wading with their dogs off leash in the shallows
* about 6 people swimming (including my daughter)
* about 5 kitesurfers weaving among them
* about 20 odd kitesurfers out further doing the right thing.

Clearly, some kiters (including here) don't know the rules or don't care about them - putting our sport at serious risk. None of them were newbies.

I know some local kiting shops regularly gets calls from irate members of the public about this behaviour too.

One avoidable fatality or serious injury caused by a kitesurfer would be front page news and get serious attention from authorities.

Take this as a wake up call - don't blame me!

Saffer
VIC, 4462 posts
23 Mar 2017 9:20AM
Thumbs Up

Peterc150 said..



Smithy said..





Peterc150 said..
Shared Wind Sport Area - this zone provides an area for kite boarding, sail boarding and other wind based boating which may exceed 5 knots except within 50m proximity to other vessels and swimmers. Other vessels are permitted in this area.

www.parks.vic.gov.au/water-management/boating-and-swimming-zones

A Shared Wind Sport Area does not provide exclusive access to windsports and exclude others such as swimmers.

Any kiter exceeding 5 knots within 50m of any swimmer is breaking the law - in or out of a shared windsports zone.

I really don't think its appropriate for kiters to put others at risk under the mistaken belief they have exclusive access to an area. Lots of tourists and locals use this beach too.

If this behaviour continues and complaints are made to the Council and/or Police or Parks Vic its possible kiters will be banned from this location.

I won't allow my daughter to swim there again as I don't want put her at risk of death or injury. Show ponies crashing their kites on sunbathers on the beach pose similar risks.







Not withstanding the dangerous behaviour you may have observed, for which there is no excuse.

You are 100% correct regarding the 5 knot / 50m rules and it is the fact that you understand it that I find your actions somewhat bizarre and inconsiderate to your fellow kiteboarders.

As a kiteboarder you are aware how few wind sport areas there are and yet you chose to take your family to swim in one such area expecting your fellow kiters to yield to your presence and all move away and slow down. Why would you do that? It is difficult enough with the average punter who doesn't know the rules.






Its seems you and a few others here want to attack and blame me for the irresponsible actions of a few apparently ignorant kitesurfers? I don't accept that.

We wanted to walk and swim our dog and my daughter wanted to splash in the shallows (about 0.5m). There was group of about 6 people swimming about 50m away.

There were lots of people wading in the shallows walking their dogs - similarly concerned by the action of the kitesurfers.

Then there were all the beach goers (100+) at serious risk from a powered up crashed kite and or lines hitting them.

There was all the area out past the sandbank for kiters and absolutely NO reason for them to be weaving around swimmers that were clearly visible.

So the scores were:
* about 100+ people on the beach
* 15 odd wading with their dogs off leash in the shallows
* about 6 people swimming (including my daughter)
* about 5 kitesurfers weaving among them
* about 20 odd kitesurfers out further doing the right thing.

Clearly, some kiters (including here) don't know the rules or don't care about them - putting our sport at serious risk. None of them were newbies.

I know some local kiting shops regularly gets calls from irate members of the public about this behaviour too.

One avoidable fatality or serious injury caused by a kitesurfer would be front page news and get serious attention from authorities.

Take this as a wake up call - don't blame me!




Peter, I think they accept the kitesurfers were wrong, what they are questioning is why you would take your daughter to a wind sports zone knowing full well that there are very few of them, and that your actions are likely to inconvenience kitesurfers who are already crowded into very few dedicated locations.

We all know the kitesurfers at St Kilda are show ponies and act like reprobates. That's not a surprise to anyone who has kited there in the last 5 years. If the 400 wake up calls before this didn't work, do you honestly think this one will? They've wrapped kites around yacht masts, ignore the requirement to stay away from the boat ramp, etc. They won't get a wake up call until someone is injured. We know that.

pgc
VIC, 843 posts
23 Mar 2017 10:24AM
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I think that has to be the dirtiest water in Melbourne!!! No way id swim there!!! That being said . What happens when an out of control dog gets hit??? Is it the owners fault or the kiters?? As I understand it if youre dog is off the leash you must still be in control. Just checking as my dog loves kite surfing and I would not blame any one who by accident hit her. I am trying to teach her to stay away but she wants to go for a ride. ( shes a good sup rider and not bad on a twin tip sitting on the chicken loop) A dog that was out of control got nearly cut in two a few weeks ago. As I see it the dog was out of control and the owner let it go on for at least an hour. Interested in opinions.

Smithy
VIC, 828 posts
23 Mar 2017 4:54PM
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Saffer said..

Peterc150 said..




Smithy said..






Peterc150 said..
Shared Wind Sport Area - this zone provides an area for kite boarding, sail boarding and other wind based boating which may exceed 5 knots except within 50m proximity to other vessels and swimmers. Other vessels are permitted in this area.

www.parks.vic.gov.au/water-management/boating-and-swimming-zones

A Shared Wind Sport Area does not provide exclusive access to windsports and exclude others such as swimmers.

Any kiter exceeding 5 knots within 50m of any swimmer is breaking the law - in or out of a shared windsports zone.

I really don't think its appropriate for kiters to put others at risk under the mistaken belief they have exclusive access to an area. Lots of tourists and locals use this beach too.

If this behaviour continues and complaints are made to the Council and/or Police or Parks Vic its possible kiters will be banned from this location.

I won't allow my daughter to swim there again as I don't want put her at risk of death or injury. Show ponies crashing their kites on sunbathers on the beach pose similar risks.








Not withstanding the dangerous behaviour you may have observed, for which there is no excuse.

You are 100% correct regarding the 5 knot / 50m rules and it is the fact that you understand it that I find your actions somewhat bizarre and inconsiderate to your fellow kiteboarders.

As a kiteboarder you are aware how few wind sport areas there are and yet you chose to take your family to swim in one such area expecting your fellow kiters to yield to your presence and all move away and slow down. Why would you do that? It is difficult enough with the average punter who doesn't know the rules.







Its seems you and a few others here want to attack and blame me for the irresponsible actions of a few apparently ignorant kitesurfers? I don't accept that.

We wanted to walk and swim our dog and my daughter wanted to splash in the shallows (about 0.5m). There was group of about 6 people swimming about 50m away.

There were lots of people wading in the shallows walking their dogs - similarly concerned by the action of the kitesurfers.

Then there were all the beach goers (100+) at serious risk from a powered up crashed kite and or lines hitting them.

There was all the area out past the sandbank for kiters and absolutely NO reason for them to be weaving around swimmers that were clearly visible.

So the scores were:
* about 100+ people on the beach
* 15 odd wading with their dogs off leash in the shallows
* about 6 people swimming (including my daughter)
* about 5 kitesurfers weaving among them
* about 20 odd kitesurfers out further doing the right thing.

Clearly, some kiters (including here) don't know the rules or don't care about them - putting our sport at serious risk. None of them were newbies.

I know some local kiting shops regularly gets calls from irate members of the public about this behaviour too.

One avoidable fatality or serious injury caused by a kitesurfer would be front page news and get serious attention from authorities.

Take this as a wake up call - don't blame me!





Peter, I think they accept the kitesurfers were wrong, what they are questioning is why you would take your daughter to a wind sports zone knowing full well that there are very few of them, and that your actions are likely to inconvenience kitesurfers who are already crowded into very few dedicated locations.

We all know the kitesurfers at St Kilda are show ponies and act like reprobates. That's not a surprise to anyone who has kited there in the last 5 years. If the 400 wake up calls before this didn't work, do you honestly think this one will? They've wrapped kites around yacht masts, ignore the requirement to stay away from the boat ramp, etc. They won't get a wake up call until someone is injured. We know that.


Thanks, exactly the point I was trying to make.

Peterc150
VIC, 710 posts
24 Mar 2017 1:33PM
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Select to expand quote
pgc said..
I think that has to be the dirtiest water in Melbourne!!! No way id swim there!!! That being said . What happens when an out of control dog gets hit??? Is it the owners fault or the kiters?? As I understand it if youre dog is off the leash you must still be in control. Just checking as my dog loves kite surfing and I would not blame any one who by accident hit her. I am trying to teach her to stay away but she wants to go for a ride. ( shes a good sup rider and not bad on a twin tip sitting on the chicken loop) A dog that was out of control got nearly cut in two a few weeks ago. As I see it the dog was out of control and the owner let it go on for at least an hour. Interested in opinions.


Dog owners are responsible for keeping their dog(s) under control including when they are off leash.

If there is a problem with a dog's behaviour - resulting in injury to it or others (or damage) the owner is fully responsible and would be at fault.

pgc
VIC, 843 posts
25 Mar 2017 2:07AM
Thumbs Up

yeh thats what i thought thanks

polykarb
VIC, 273 posts
27 Mar 2017 8:50PM
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The Kiddie pool is always a fun Forum Topic, at least all the rocks have gone. (covered in sand).



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"Bad experience at Kiddies Pool" started by Peterc150