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Soul12 v edge 13 v8

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Created by ste 3 months ago, 28 Jun 2019
ste
WA, 413 posts
28 Jun 2019 3:49PM
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Can anyone give a comparison between these two kites for a 88kg rider? Looking for differences in power, low end, and jumping performance on twinny only. Would it work and give me more in the 13-20 knot wind range than the edge 13? Or not worth the swap?
cheers.

SaveTheWhales
WA, 1685 posts
29 Jun 2019 6:19AM
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Answer - Take yourself down to ActionSports and Demo their 12m Soul, make your own mind up according to your style

If youve not flown a foil before - be sure to take someone who has, if you demo and shows you how to set the lines out and make it easy to launch / land... im very glad I had a friend a friend help me on the beach

ActionSportsWA
WA, 714 posts
2 Jul 2019 6:18PM
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Hi ste,

Completely agree with Save the Whales, although the quick answer is, Yes, the 12m Soul will deliver more power than the 13m Edge, also better upwind and downwind and more hangtime.

A demo is a good idea as they are a tad different, but really no more or less difficult, just different.

I honestly have a hard time flying inflatables these days because they just feel primitive and inefficient, especially on a foil. They (inflatos) are still fun of course, just better suited than Ram Airs in certain situations like surf IMHO.

DM

ste
WA, 413 posts
2 Jul 2019 7:46PM
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Thanks guys, much appreciate the advice. Will definitely demo for sure.
what would be the subtle differences In jumping technique on the foil kites?
cheers

causehecan
WA, 668 posts
3 Jul 2019 6:18PM
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It takes alot longer to land on a foil kite because your wallets empty

ste
WA, 413 posts
3 Jul 2019 6:57PM
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Haaaa! That's true

snalberski
WA, 647 posts
3 Jul 2019 8:47PM
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ste said..
Thanks guys, much appreciate the advice. Will definitely demo for sure.
what would be the subtle differences In jumping technique on the foil kites?
cheers


If you haven't flown a foil kite you probably will be surprised how much further forward in the window it flies. This changes the recognizable geometry of sending the kite in comparison to to an inflatable. It doesnt take long (minutes not hours) to get used to it. A 12m soul will also be slower to send than a 13m Edge which also needs a timing adjustment.... easy enough.
The good news is that a 12m soul will boost at least 30% higher and hang at least 30% longer than a 13m edge (in my estimation) with a pillow soft landing.

ActionSportsWA
WA, 714 posts
4 Jul 2019 2:44PM
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causehecan said..
It takes alot longer to land on a foil kite because your wallets empty


I have no problem with comparing various brands, models and such, but I think it is misleading when throw away comments like this are made.

To use hard facts, a 12m Flysurfer Soul will provide similar power and lift to a 15m Ozone Edge. The RRP of a 12m Flysurfer Soul is $2,488. A 15m Edge is $2,500.

You can say the sqm vs sqm price is more expensive using a foil kite but if you use Ozone pricing of between 11m ($2249) and 13m ($2,349) as Edges are in odd sizes), you get a rough price of $2300 for a virtual Edge 12m. This makes the 12m Soul $200 more expensive, however, the power is vastly different between the performance and power of inflatables to Ram Air kites.

Considering the work and precision that goes in to building a ram air kite vs an inflatable kite, I think the ram airs are very fairly priced and actually better value when you compare equivalent performance.

Carry on!

DM

eppo
WA, 7317 posts
4 Jul 2019 5:29PM
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There's a lot of throw away comments from caushecan lately. ...

ste
WA, 413 posts
8 Jul 2019 2:13PM
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Anyone with more experience on the soul 12?

causehecan
WA, 668 posts
8 Jul 2019 4:20PM
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ActionSportsWA said..

causehecan said..
It takes alot longer to land on a foil kite because your wallets empty



I have no problem with comparing various brands, models and such, but I think it is misleading when throw away comments like this are made.

To use hard facts, a 12m Flysurfer Soul will provide similar power and lift to a 15m Ozone Edge. The RRP of a 12m Flysurfer Soul is $2,488. A 15m Edge is $2,500.

You can say the sqm vs sqm price is more expensive using a foil kite but if you use Ozone pricing of between 11m ($2249) and 13m ($2,349) as Edges are in odd sizes), you get a rough price of $2300 for a virtual Edge 12m. This makes the 12m Soul $200 more expensive, however, the power is vastly different between the performance and power of inflatables to Ram Air kites.

Considering the work and precision that goes in to building a ram air kite vs an inflatable kite, I think the ram airs are very fairly priced and actually better value when you compare equivalent performance.

Carry on!

DM


My foil kite cost me a couple grand my lei cost me a few hundred

apepene43
QLD, 101 posts
8 Jul 2019 10:37PM
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eppo said..
There's a lot of throw away comments from caushecan lately. ...


Agreed

BrisKites
QLD, 1247 posts
9 Jul 2019 11:39AM
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ste said..
Anyone with more experience on the soul 12?


What do you need to know?

ste
WA, 413 posts
9 Jul 2019 4:43PM
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Pretty much if I'm going to gain anything from 13-20 knots over my edge 13. And if it's really worth the purchase? I will demo, but just chasing experiences.
cheers.

Greenarrowz
NSW, 287 posts
9 Jul 2019 7:15PM
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You will be disappointed comparing a 13 edge to any 12 foil.
It's simply too good of a design.


15m foil will be the moneyshot for any noticeable feel good improvement .

13 edge is already like a regular 15...but can make good apparent wind which translates to session saving power... and turns better than any 15m.

Demo demo demo is key .

ste
WA, 413 posts
10 Jul 2019 1:03PM
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Yeh that was my thinking. The 13 edge has such a good low end, and on those 15-18 knot breezes I'm just practicing rotations and stuff to keep up the interest and make those winds fun. When it's good wind and cranking I'm boosting my arse off on the 11-9 edges and 9 pivot. Not sure I'm going to gain much from change.

Stu101
117 posts
15 Jul 2019 1:37AM
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If boosting is your thing what you gain in lower stuff is stronger pull from the soul. You also gain the ability to send the kite from next to stand still and still generate massive lift from the soul. The edge you need to be going well before you can send it to generate any where near the same lift!

I completely disagree with green arrows above. The soul foil is a superior design over the 13m edge. The 12m will cover the power range of a 13/15 and 17m edge or zephyer easily as well and is still controllable down to 11m range Lei range. If you are learning tricks unless you are learning mega loops, from someone who learnt all their tricks in a 17m zephyer in yesteryear the soul will allow you to learn them way easier. This includes all your slow loop tricks like dark slides and Jesus walk type. The soul 12 is more controlled when doing slow back loop tricks than an Lei edge and less powerful for some reason how ever the opposite usually less power full down loop on an Lei unless pulled hard on the foil is bloody powerfull and will rocket you down wind at mac 10 which actually can be fun if prepared.
I haven't learnt anything new on an Lei last couple years. I only do hooked tricks due to getting older and hurting more when injured and was getting board kiting. Since getting soul kites I am started learning more tricks again and rediscovered the awesome stoke. The 12m soul does turn a little slower than 13edge. That is the negative but trust me the positives way out do the negatives! I sold the 12m soul and bought the 10 as couldn't afford both. I won't be going back to larger lei's anytime soon! The 10m is awesome and have my nearly new 11m bandit up for sale now as it is redundant. Even the 10m gets me out on my twin tip at 87kg when people are on 17 zephyer and 15m edges and still boosts higher from less run up in their lower end capabilities. The soul is very different. You need to try it to discover what a good kite should feel like. Like someone said above though Lei's Still have their place but the only one I can think of is in the waves and maybe, and I only say this I have never tried the 8m soul or the top end conditions on the 10m soul yet, perhaps the high stuff.

eppo
WA, 7317 posts
15 Jul 2019 8:31AM
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Lei for waves, Unhooking, megaloops ... unless you are Ollie bridge, but not many of us are. Yeh like to give one of these souls a go at the wind fest this year my rebel is getting old and tired... kinda like my body really.

ste
WA, 413 posts
15 Jul 2019 10:02AM
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Thanks for all the info guys, will demo the soul for sure.

ActionSportsWA
WA, 714 posts
24 Jul 2019 10:18PM
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Hi Guys,

I am currently in Mauritius and it has been bloody cranking every day here. I brought an 8, 12 and 15m Soul (our Soul demo fleet) as they can take a punch and I was hoping to learn some new stuff possibly resulting in hard prangs. I've used mostly the 12m Soul in anything from 10 knots to 25 knots and the 8m from 15 knots to high twenties. In 10 knots I was on the foil with short lines and the 12 had heaps. The longer lines haven't been used on the 12m but were great for the gap between the 8m and 12m. 5m extensions are added for a bigger power stroke.

I've had the 12m on 13m lines on a twin tip in 25 knots and managed a healthy 67kmh on a twin tip and the boosting was off the richter! I did come in and add the 5m extensions to give me a little more down swoop room when landing mega jumps. The hangtime is plain ridiculous and effortless. I was hopng to go megalooping on the 8m with longer lines but I reckon I would need 30 knots to do what I want to do. I could ride a TT in about 20 knots on the 8m easily.

Flysurfer have just added a 7m and 9m to their range in the Souls. I bloody love these kites and seriously cannot go back to an inflatable. Such fun kites, easy, stable, powerful, versatile and fun.

DM

ste
WA, 413 posts
25 Jul 2019 5:47PM
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Cheers Darren, looking foreword to giving it a demo.

cauncy
WA, 7552 posts
25 Jul 2019 6:22PM
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ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Guys,

I am currently in Mauritius and it has been bloody cranking every day here. I brought an 8, 12 and 15m Soul (our Soul demo fleet) as they can take a punch and I was hoping to learn some new stuff possibly resulting in hard prangs. I've used mostly the 12m Soul in anything from 10 knots to 25 knots and the 8m from 15 knots to high twenties. In 10 knots I was on the foil with short lines and the 12 had heaps. The longer lines haven't been used on the 12m but were great for the gap between the 8m and 12m. 5m extensions are added for a bigger power stroke.

I've had the 12m on 13m lines on a twin tip in 25 knots and managed a healthy 67kmh on a twin tip and the boosting was off the richter! I did come in and add the 5m extensions to give me a little more down swoop room when landing mega jumps. The hangtime is plain ridiculous and effortless. I was hopng to go megalooping on the 8m with longer lines but I reckon I would need 30 knots to do what I want to do. I could ride a TT in about 20 knots on the 8m easily.

Flysurfer have just added a 7m and 9m to their range in the Souls. I bloody love these kites and seriously cannot go back to an inflatable. Such fun kites, easy, stable, powerful, versatile and fun.

DM


Sound great DM
but are you maybe gettting a bit slack in your latter years and Carnt be arsed pumping up a Le inflatable

BillTotal
QLD, 31 posts
25 Jul 2019 10:19PM
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What's ur dry weight DM?
I thought the 8m had enough power for megaloops in the mid to high 20 knots
I am flying a 6m and boosting in the mid 20 to 30 km range is mega. ( 67 KGS dry :)))

KPSS Used
NSW, 233 posts
Site Sponsor
26 Jul 2019 2:31PM
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BillTotal said..
What's ur dry weight DM?
I thought the 8m had enough power for megaloops in the mid to high 20 knots
I am flying a 6m and boosting in the mid 20 to 30 km range is mega. ( 67 KGS dry :)))


Absolutely dry like a desert he would be about 30kg, but with his natural water content would be about 90kg.

causehecan
WA, 668 posts
26 Jul 2019 4:15PM
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Wetsuits add like 5 to 8 kgs so i just shave all my bodyhair and paint myself black in silicone paint so it looks like im wearing wetty i ended up winning the world bodysurfing title useing this method and shes only $15 quid a can
www.bunnings.com.au/rust-oleum-340g-black-leakseal-flexible-rubber-coating-spray_p4750205

SaveTheWhales
WA, 1685 posts
27 Jul 2019 6:01AM
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ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Guys,

Flysurfer have just added a 7m and 9m to their range in the Souls. I bloody love these kites and seriously cannot go back to an inflatable. Such fun kites, easy, stable, powerful, versatile and fun.

DM


Great to hear your having fun while we freeze to death :)
I think the 9m Soul, if they have made it turn fast and closer to the 8m style, rather than the 10m - will be an excellentl jump n trick kite for the heavier riders at 20+ knots.
The bottom end having that little bit more to pull the beer & pies ;)

Thanks again for taking me out on your boat / foil board noob day.. I had a go yesterday under a kite and got up instantly both directions. Some fun stuff in 10 knots :)

ActionSportsWA
WA, 714 posts
27 Jul 2019 9:48AM
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@Billtotal,

Hey mate, I'm around 93kg bare arse nekid, so probably closer to 100kg with neoprene, harny etc.

@Cauncy,

Yes, I am. Faster rigging, faster pack down and no pumping Having been in Mauritius for the last two weeks, I appreciate the light weight for traveling too!

@Save the whales,

Glad to hear it mate, you were a natural behind the boat, welcome to the world of foiling

I've been here in Mauritius with a group of our customers for the last two weeks. It's been blowing its tits off for the entire time but has ramped up for the entire second week. I've only used the 8m on short lines this week almost exclusively on the race foil but also did a little freeride and boosting on the TT.

Even on 13m lines the jumps on the race foil in 30 knots with the Soul 8 are super high and very floaty. Too scared to loop it with the carbon knives under foot, but hell, it's been an impressive little kite. I think with 18m lines on a TT, 35 knots would give stupidly massive jumps. I was lit on the race foil in 30 knots with literally only 1 click of depower, but 13m lines for control. Great fun.

See you all back in Perth tomorrow

DM

eppo
WA, 7317 posts
27 Jul 2019 11:04AM
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Dazza you doing the wind fest thingy this year. Want to try these soul kites. My rebel is nearly beyond tissue paper. Weird flying a see through kite lol.

eppo
WA, 7317 posts
28 Jul 2019 11:01AM
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Can these new breed of free ride foils actually drift ? Honest question...

ste
WA, 413 posts
28 Jul 2019 1:35PM
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Looking forward to demoing the 12 soul. As I say, if I'm getting more performance in the 13-18 range than my edge 13 on a twinny, I'm getting one.

daddycool
WA, 322 posts
28 Jul 2019 2:29PM
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eppo said..
Can these new breed of free ride foils actually drift ? Honest question...


used a 12m SOUL in a downwinder in Exmouth last October - didn't drift like a wave kite but more like a xr5 .... ie need to fly it in a particular way. Having said that they do float back into the window and recover if get too far forward - this same feature helps with the drift or any downwinder kite positioning mistakes....apparemtly the single skinned Peak by Flysurfer does drift extremely well (however doesn't go upwind very well)



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"Soul12 v edge 13 v8" started by ste