Forums > Kitesurfing   Newbies / Tips & Tricks

Not another upwind question...

Reply
Created by jimg > 9 months ago, 26 Jan 2017
jimg
WA, 19 posts
26 Jan 2017 3:55PM
Thumbs Up

So I've cracked riding upwind, but now I only seem to be able to go upwind to the point the only way to get back to where I started is drifting when I fall off!

Trouble I'm having is going more downwind or crosswind my speed builds up too much and because I'm not edging so hard I feel totally out of control.

Any tips? Searched t'internet but all seems to be about going upwind.

Cheers

billob
QLD, 92 posts
26 Jan 2017 7:54PM
Thumbs Up

Good problem to have :) more time on the water will sort that out. Most kiters lose ground by boosting/catching waves/ carving transitions - i reckon edge hard up wind send the kite to 12 and let go of the rail - tadah you're downwind.

VRBones
130 posts
27 Jan 2017 7:55AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
jimg said..
Trouble I'm having is going more downwind or crosswind my speed builds up too much and because I'm not edging so hard I feel totally out of control.


It sounds like you have gotten used to heading more upwind to slow you down, which is great. The problem will then be: how do I control my speed when I cannot just head upwind a little more? Quick answer, kite at 11:30.

Even though the kite is pulling you directly toward itself, you can break down the amount of force into 2 parts: horizontal force and vertical force. Horizontal force is used to speed you up, vertical force is used to counteract your weight on the board (but is still generally less than your weight, otherwise you fly). With the kite almost on the water, the force from the kite pull provides almost all horizontal and almost no vertical. With the kite at 12 (directly above you), the force is almost all vertical and almost no horizontal (just a little bit heading directly downwind). With the kite at 10:30 (45 degrees), it provides equal amounts horizontal and vertical components of force.

So, with the kite high there should be less horizontal force, therefore less maximum speed achievable.

All good in theory, but you will also need to consider that the vertical force counteracts your weight and makes it easier to speed up. In practice this turns into you going just about as fast with the kite at 10:30 (45 degrees) as it does with the kite almost on the water. It's only when the kite is almost directly above you (say 11:30) that the horizontal force reduces enough to make a significant impact on your top speed.

Another minor point is that heading downwind reduces the apparent wind across the sail, making less power. Eg: heading directly downwind at 10 knots in 15 knot winds will mean the wind going over the kite is only 5 knots. Keep a close eye on your kite when heading significantly downwind at speed.

VRBones
130 posts
27 Jan 2017 8:01AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
billob said..
Most kiters lose ground by boosting/catching waves/ carving transitions


For beginners, transitions and carving transitions are probably the most productive way to go directly downwind. Turn left, turn right, turn left. Lots of good practice time.

jimg
WA, 19 posts
27 Jan 2017 8:27AM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for the tips guys. VR you hit the nail on the head regarding speed! Build up a **** load of speed, lose my edge and Whoa pull up wind! Guess I need to work on the edging and being comfortable going faster. Carving is definitely high on the 'to learn' list.. Looks like fun!

One thing tho, I thought with the kite high it would cause my harness to ride up? I already have slightly bruised ribs from this despite it being on tight.

Cheers

VRBones
130 posts
27 Jan 2017 10:26AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
jimg said..
One thing tho, I thought with the kite high it would cause my harness to ride up? I already have slightly bruised ribs from this despite it being on tight.


Having the kite high makes it more difficult, however you CAN ride with your body perpendicular to the kite in almost any kite position and pull, it just requires balance, a good understanding of kite power, and edge control. Fortunately all these will become second nature with practice. It sounds like a cop out, but in about a year's time your harness riding up just won't be an issue even if you don't do any of the stuff below.

The harness riding up is caused by the kite pulling your harness hook up towards your head rather than directly out and away from your body. There are a few scenarios where this is likely to occur:
- Standing on the beach with the kite stationary above you (Beginners do more of this)
- Walking on the beach with the kite above you (Eg: Beginners walk-of-shame up the beach)
- Sitting upright in the water (beginners do more of these prepping for water starts)
- crouching while riding (beginners do this to provide more balance, Eg: the poostance)
- riding slow and upright (beginners do this more to control speed)
- upright transitions (beginners do almost all of these rather than laying back)

Even though there are lots of scenarios with different factors leading to them, the answer is still the same: to stop the harness riding up, lean back so that the kite is pulling directly away from you. Sometimes the answer isn't so practical (like when walking on the beach), but the main thing to remember is to keep seeking ways to get your body into a T shape so the kite is perpendicular to your waist.

To practice, head out into knee deep water with heaps of space. With the kite flying directly above, lean back until you feel the kite is pulling the harness directly away from you. You will notice that you are lying almost on the surface of the water and have bent your legs so that your feet are beneath you to maintain balance (with smaller kites you might be almost doubled over onto your legs to maintain balance). This bending of the legs is important as it adjusts your center of balance to compensate for what your upper body is doing.

Start flying the kite slowly into different positions and attempt to maintain a 90 degree angle from your waist to the kite while keeping your feet in the same position. If you get pulled off balance and need to move your feet, stop, get yourself sorted and try again. Once you feel confident, speed up the kite to provide more power. This will make your shape different as you predict how much power is needed to lean back against, and at what angle the kite is now pulling at (likely lower so you need to be more upright). When you're getting pretty good at it, try with your feet together.

The eventual goal is to get comfortable in leaning back. If you can lean back with varying amounts of power and varying kite positions, then when out on the water it will be easier on your body (as you're naturally balanced in a moving system), easier on your harness (as it's working as designed with the power away from you), and you will be more able to control exactly where you want to put your body and board (eg: to smash a lip).

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
27 Jan 2017 12:35PM
Thumbs Up

I know exactly what you mean and experienced this last session when I tried to ride a lump of swell that was almost breaking and built up too much speed from it. I sent the kite to 12 and did a big air that drifted me down wind, lucky i did that other wise I might have crashed pretty hard!

When I am edging I tend to try and do a stall on the board (like a surfboard stall) as in push on the tail, and also try and do a little carve (like a surfboard carve). That usually kills off excess speed. It is scary though! What I might try next time is not do an air but just do a tiny mini air to lift me off the ground ever so slightly (maybe kite at 1 oclock or something).

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
27 Jan 2017 12:40PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
VRBones said..

the answer is still the same: to stop the harness riding up, lean back so that the kite is pulling directly away from you. Sometimes the answer isn't so practical (like when walking on the beach), but the main thing to remember is to keep seeking ways to get your body into a T shape so the kite is perpendicular to your waist.



Well for most, maybe but I have massive girly love handle hips that just squeeze off the harness. So now I just bought a seat harness, voila... holding edge perfectly flat like a pancake





Rails
QLD, 1370 posts
27 Jan 2017 5:09PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
drewpweiner said..

VRBones said..

the answer is still the same: to stop the harness riding up, lean back so that the kite is pulling directly away from you. Sometimes the answer isn't so practical (like when walking on the beach), but the main thing to remember is to keep seeking ways to get your body into a T shape so the kite is perpendicular to your waist.




Well for most, maybe but I have massive girly love handle hips that just squeeze off the harness. So now I just bought a seat harness, voila... holding edge perfectly flat like a pancake






Arrrgggghhhh, can't unsee

1/18 but only because you kept your jocks on

2stubborn2quit
WA, 169 posts
27 Jan 2017 4:41PM
Thumbs Up

I thought this site was carefully monitored and censored. After seeing that .... dare I say photo I believe I have been scared for life. Nightmares will surely follow and I will definitely require sedation to help with "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome". Maybe I should send the medical bills to seabreeze for failing in their duty of care.
DONT EVER LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN.

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
27 Jan 2017 7:35PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
2old2quit said..
I thought this site was carefully monitored and censored. After seeing that .... dare I say photo I believe I have been scared for life. Nightmares will surely follow and I will definitely require sedation to help with "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome". Maybe I should send the medical bills to seabreeze for failing in their duty of care.
DONT EVER LET THAT HAPPEN AGAIN.


m8 they should be banning u for your reckless abuse of "sensitive men with wide hips". It's not my fault I'm so good to look at it gives you ptsd



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Kitesurfing   Newbies / Tips & Tricks


"Not another upwind question..." started by jimg