Forums > Kitesurfing General

Catch ya later Seabreeze!!!

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Created by Gazuki Two weeks ago, 6 Mar 2019
Gazuki
WA, 863 posts
6 Mar 2019 6:43PM
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When you are not aloud to to discuss kite prices on a kite forum I call BS. Vested interest,. Maybe.
I must have been misunderstood discussing such topics on a watersport forum. Guess it's better that you keep discussing flat earth, trump, Aus politics and other racist BS!
It's been fun!

quikdrawMcgraw
970 posts
6 Mar 2019 6:52PM
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You'll be back

Aspiremr
WA, 84 posts
6 Mar 2019 6:54PM
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Gazuki said..
When you are not aloud to to discuss kite prices on a kite forum I call BS. Vested interest,. Maybe.
I must have been misunderstood discussing such topics on a watersport forum. Guess it's better that you keep discussing flat earth, trump, Aus politics and other racist BS!
It's been fun!


Bye.

cauncy
WA, 6961 posts
6 Mar 2019 7:20PM
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Please don't leave

Sparky
WA, 853 posts
6 Mar 2019 7:27PM
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It was because you can't spell allowed.

Richoa
NSW, 455 posts
6 Mar 2019 10:52PM
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Miss him already.


What does a pie cost in WA, I wonder

AquaPlow
QLD, 714 posts
6 Mar 2019 10:11PM
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I read the post u started on pricing.. to get a feel for the point u r irate about... topic a bit boring so .. it is what it is.. remarkably uniform pricing around the country ...
Basicly u got a good serve in.. nothing to be ****ty about..
Do something else for a week.. after that
Your next topic starter can be ....
"How to obtain the economy of scale in the OZ kitesurfing market !"
idea 1: Bane all O/S kites from bringing their own kit with them.

Till then enjoy the free time created...not on SB
cheers
AP

eppo
WA, 6863 posts
6 Mar 2019 9:40PM
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bjw
NSW, 2657 posts
7 Mar 2019 7:39AM
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Gazuki said..
When you are not aloud to to discuss kite prices on a kite forum I call BS. Vested interest,. Maybe.
I must have been misunderstood discussing such topics on a watersport forum. Guess it's better that you keep discussing flat earth, trump, Aus politics and other racist BS!
It's been fun!


Nah. That's not how to exit the forum.

Getting banned is the only way.

bjw
NSW, 2657 posts
7 Mar 2019 7:42AM
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Or just come back as another login. That's what the real seabreeze pros do.

CJ2478
NSW, 304 posts
7 Mar 2019 8:21AM
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bjw said..
Or just come back as another login. That's what the real seabreeze pros do.


Dont forget to use a VPN with a different IUP address so that not even the moderators/admin can tell you're the same person

cauncy
WA, 6961 posts
7 Mar 2019 7:05AM
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bjw said..
Or just come back as another login. That's what the real seabreeze pros do.


Yeh call yourself Colin

DJMWA
WA, 290 posts
7 Mar 2019 7:43AM
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I miss Colin

cauncy
WA, 6961 posts
7 Mar 2019 7:46AM
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DJMWA said..
I miss Colin


And his mate

Kamikuza
QLD, 3707 posts
7 Mar 2019 10:00AM
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Business bashing includes discussing and disapproval of the entire business model? Interesting...

PS. Plummet, check out the Click bar. It's a bargain!

laurie
WA, 3778 posts
7 Mar 2019 11:06AM
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Gazuki said..
I must have been misunderstood discussing such topics on a watersport forum.





Thanks for owning it. Because yes - a simple misunderstanding ... the policy has been in place for 15+ years. Don't worry - you're not the first to miss reading the posting rules!

Here they are:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx

The intent is about end game. Say you successfully argue that the kite industry is making more money than you are happy with. Then what? From my view, it's simply a dead end street that does damage and nothing good comes from it. Just hatred and conspiracy. Meanwhile good people work hard trying to make ends meet.

The industry is super competitive - there is no room for slack.

bjw
NSW, 2657 posts
7 Mar 2019 2:27PM
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Can I make a generalisation that kiters are tight arses that love complaining about how dangerous
the sport is and how their kite brand is the only good one?

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 719 posts
7 Mar 2019 1:33PM
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Just re-read the forum rules...

www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx

In the words of Willy Wonka - "it's all there in black and white!! You lose!"

Fly on da wall
VIC, 677 posts
7 Mar 2019 2:44PM
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bjw said..
Can I make a generalisation that kiters are tight arses that love complaining about how dangerous
the sport is and how their kite brand is the only good one?


That's cause most are old farts.

Plummet
4351 posts
7 Mar 2019 1:10PM
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Well I was amused with the thread. Though I don't want to pay the retail price I'm not surprised by it.

I'm in manufacturing and the reatail price is a compounded amount with multiple middlemen taking a slice.

Let's so a thought experiment.

Chinese kite shop manufactures for $150dds 100% sells $300 kitebrand,

Kite brand adds 100% sells for $600 to country distributor,

distributor adds 100% sells to kite shop at $1200

Kiteshop adds 100% and sells to you for $2400.

Richoa
NSW, 455 posts
7 Mar 2019 4:49PM
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It's just the vibe of it!

shi thouse
WA, 742 posts
7 Mar 2019 2:13PM
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Plummet said..
Well I was amused with the thread. Though I don't want to pay the retail price I'm not surprised by it.

I'm in manufacturing and the reatail price is a compounded amount with multiple middlemen taking a slice.

Let's so a thought experiment.

Chinese kite shop manufactures for $150dds 100% sells $300 kitebrand,

Kite brand adds 100% sells for $600 to country distributor,

distributor adds 100% sells to kite shop at $1200

Kiteshop adds 100% and sells to you for $2400.


!00% of $2400 is a lot more wiggle room than that of the distributor, kite brand and manufacturer. But being the at the end of line leaves them with most risk??

Kamikuza
QLD, 3707 posts
7 Mar 2019 4:25PM
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laurie said..

Gazuki said..
I must have been misunderstood discussing such topics on a watersport forum.






Thanks for owning it. Because yes - a simple misunderstanding ... the policy has been in place for 15+ years. Don't worry - you're not the first to miss reading the posting rules!

Here they are:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx

The intent is about end game. Say you successfully argue that the kite industry is making more money than you are happy with. Then what? From my view, it's simply a dead end street that does damage and nothing good comes from it. Just hatred and conspiracy. Meanwhile good people work hard trying to make ends meet.

The industry is super competitive - there is no room for slack.


Then what? We keep arguing. How do you think PeterMac threads go on for pages and pages

Kamikuza
QLD, 3707 posts
7 Mar 2019 4:27PM
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Happy2kite said..

Plummet said..
Well I was amused with the thread. Though I don't want to pay the retail price I'm not surprised by it.

I'm in manufacturing and the reatail price is a compounded amount with multiple middlemen taking a slice.

Let's so a thought experiment.

Chinese kite shop manufactures for $150dds 100% sells $300 kitebrand,

Kite brand adds 100% sells for $600 to country distributor,

distributor adds 100% sells to kite shop at $1200

Kiteshop adds 100% and sells to you for $2400.



Your spot on but distributor doesn't get 100% close but no.
And closer to $250 per kite only. Only around 150 if run in 10000 units. And no kite brands don't want super seeded stock.
Bars $100-150.
In the future most kites will be indented by the retailer and if he dosen't order enough you miss out. And will have to wait or hopefully find it at another shop for full rrp. Because again he doesn't want to be caught with stock that he can maybe just sell at cost.
What people aren't taking into account is. Sure shops have overheads so at least 4-5 kites a month to cover rent maybe electricity thats it.
But what about personal expenditure by the shop owner mortgage on house maybe. School fees etc we all know how it goes. He or she also wants to live a life go on holidays etc.
If anything Laurie. That post you deleted was giving clarity so kiters don't think that the kite shops are taking advantage and making huge profits. On the contrary I believe that most kiters won't be trying to screw the shop owner for 30-40% off as most now know margins.


So better to buy direct and relieve all that stress on a shop owner and let them get a decent job...?

Plummet
4351 posts
7 Mar 2019 3:49PM
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shi thouse said..

Plummet said..
Well I was amused with the thread. Though I don't want to pay the retail price I'm not surprised by it.

I'm in manufacturing and the reatail price is a compounded amount with multiple middlemen taking a slice.

Let's so a thought experiment.

Chinese kite shop manufactures for $150dds 100% sells $300 kitebrand,

Kite brand adds 100% sells for $600 to country distributor,

distributor adds 100% sells to kite shop at $1200

Kiteshop adds 100% and sells to you for $2400.



!00% of $2400 is a lot more wiggle room than that of the distributor, kite brand and manufacturer. But being the at the end of line leaves them with most risk??


Its also reducing economies of a scale.

Chinese shop makes 300 000 kites
kite brand buys 50 000
local destributor buys 100
resealler buys 10
you buy one......

PS My theoretical margins are just that, Theoretical. There will be many different margin structures even in one kite shops.

cauncy
WA, 6961 posts
7 Mar 2019 6:48PM
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You 2 nuggets should open a Kite buisness together, you've got it all worked out
Thats why you work for someone else

bombjack
WA, 27 posts
7 Mar 2019 7:14PM
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This thread is starting to look a lot like the last one that got locked. Funny.

Plummet
4351 posts
8 Mar 2019 1:15AM
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cauncy said..
You 2 nuggets should open a Kite buisness together, you've got it all worked out
Thats why you work for someone else


Hell no. Who would want a kite business?

Lets do another thought experiment with some not realistic maths,

Kite shop has to pay building lease, electricity and stuff..... lets assume its a pissy ass shop with low overheads.

$2500/week
$50 000 stock. Borrow money because he didnt have a cent to start the business with.
Interest on stock $80pw
Grom shop work/instructor $1000pw

Owner needs to take at least $1500 so he can live a basic life.

$5k pw needs to be cleared to stay in business,

How many kites per week does it take to clear $5k?
He soon discovers that most shops give discounts to get the deal.
Average sale price is 1800 from his 1200 cost.

He covers costs at 6 kites per week and can start taking a tiny drawings after kite 7 and 8.

Thats a lot of kites per week. Certainly, there are not that many purchased in my town.
To make a living he needs to branch out into supping and surfing and maybe put a cafe in the shop.
He works 7 days a week to scrap a living, After business hours hes doing accounts and paying the grom who gets 4 weeks holiday and 1 week sick pay and is magically sick whenever conditions are prime, he also seems to have a lot of uncles who die and he needs to attend the funeral of. Then when conditions are ideal he has to run kitesurf lessons. He misses out on the kiting more than if he had a day job.

But he's living the dream and gets discounts on kites.

Nah, stuff that,

Kamikuza
QLD, 3707 posts
8 Mar 2019 6:21AM
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cauncy said..
You 2 nuggets should open a Kite buisness together, you've got it all worked out
Thats why you work for someone else


Work? What's that?

CJ2478
NSW, 304 posts
8 Mar 2019 7:40AM
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Plummet said..

cauncy said..
You 2 nuggets should open a Kite buisness together, you've got it all worked out
Thats why you work for someone else



Hell no. Who would want a kite business?

Lets do another thought experiment with some not realistic maths,

Kite shop has to pay building lease, electricity and stuff..... lets assume its a pissy ass shop with low overheads.

$2500/week
$50 000 stock. Borrow money because he didnt have a cent to start the business with.
Interest on stock $80pw
Grom shop work/instructor $1000pw

Owner needs to take at least $1500 so he can live a basic life.

$5k pw needs to be cleared to stay in business,

How many kites per week does it take to clear $5k?
He soon discovers that most shops give discounts to get the deal.
Average sale price is 1800 from his 1200 cost.

He covers costs at 6 kites per week and can start taking a tiny drawings after kite 7 and 8.

Thats a lot of kites per week. Certainly, there are not that many purchased in my town.
To make a living he needs to branch out into supping and surfing and maybe put a cafe in the shop.
He works 7 days a week to scrap a living, After business hours hes doing accounts and paying the grom who gets 4 weeks holiday and 1 week sick pay and is magically sick whenever conditions are prime, he also seems to have a lot of uncles who die and he needs to attend the funeral of. Then when conditions are ideal he has to run kitesurf lessons. He misses out on the kiting more than if he had a day job.

But he's living the dream and gets discounts on kites.

Nah, stuff that,



Any sort of retail (that isnt a large corporation) would be challenging I would imagine.

However the kite industry seems to be a funny one with multiple players in the supply chain who are all hungry for a slice of the pie.

I think for some brands at least there are limits set on how low a retailer can sell a kite for. This was confirmed last bunch of cabrinhas (superseded models) I bought when during negotiations the dealer told me not to tell anyone how much the deal was worth because he was selling to me beneath the maximum prescribed discount for the national importer/wholesaler and was risking his license to retail that brand.

By doing this it ensures that there is demand for new kites so that companies can roll out new models each year albeit with minor changes to actual design and in most cases I suspect only changes to the colour schemes.

MDSXR6T
WA, 971 posts
8 Mar 2019 10:27AM
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CJ2478 said..
I think for some brands at least there are limits set on how low a retailer can sell a kite for.

I guess you've got to be really careful not to devalue a product and it would only take 1 shop to really sink a lot of businesses and ruin lives. The flow on effect anytime a business closes is far greater than most imagine.

Of course we are paying too much for a kite but it's no different to paying $5 for a coffee or anything else. It's the greatest time in history to be alive and we live in one of the greatest countries but we've really shot ourselves in the foot and no one has an idea on how to fix it

Supporting brands going direct online is a great way to save money and lets face, the majority of Australians need and want to (cost of living and household debt continues to soar), but geez it's the last thing we need for the economy and the long term results will screw us even further.



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"Catch ya later Seabreeze!!!" started by Gazuki