Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

What is the best Light wind kite for Foil board?

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Created by Runjase 3 months ago, 20 Mar 2018
Bletti
WA, 155 posts
25 Apr 2018 10:55AM
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dachopper said..
I will be surprised if there is that big a difference between the mono / cloud and foil kites.

Didn't a whole bunch of foil kites end up in the drink a few years back in the rotto, - leighton when the guys on lei race kites rode passed them?


The first foils fell out of the sky because they raced to the shore faster than anyone on LEI, the wind dropped causing even the LEI that were there at the front of the pack (including mine) to fall in, then the later LEI came through after the wind filled in but some of the foils were already across the finish by then.

Normal LEI are much heavier per m than a foil (50% heavier for even the single strut) whereas the Cloud D is on par or lighter at 2.25kg for the 13.4m vs the Enata 2.4kg for the 13m, Diablo 2018 2.5kg for the 13m, Sonic Race 2.3kg for the 13m, R1V3 2.3kg for the 13m (according to the IKA registered kite specs). I'd bet with easier control the cloud will stay up in almost as light of wind as a foil kite.

ActionSportsWA
WA, 517 posts
25 Apr 2018 12:24PM
Thumbs Up

Hi Peeps,

There are big differences between foil and LEI kites and it isn't just the weight. Projected power for tube kites is far less than a foil due to the heavy "C" shaped arc of the kite, aspect ratio also plays a big part. Hi aspect (Ram air foils) turn more slowly and are more susceptible to changes in wind direction and gusts when standing still, but when at speed, they generate their own power and apparent wind direction through their speed making them much easier to control that when at rest. This is coupled with high aspect low drag efficient wings to produce speeds sometimes triple wind speed. The twin skins of the foil enable it to fly much faster with less drag. The lower aspect Clouds provide a fast turning, generally stable, power on demand style flying which suits wave and freeride much better than a high aspect Foil.

Unfortunately the wind at Melville yesterday was not light at all with the average probably around 12 knots, gusting to 15 or 16 and lulling down to maybe 8 knots. I was very comfortable on my 11.5 on 18m lines in the lulls and averages, but was pretty well lit up to the max in the gusts (at speed on a cross wind reach).

Bletti turned up and flew his 13.4 Cloud, he also looked well powered. There was really little point in comparing the two in the conditions we had (and I was knackered after almost 2 hours on the water before he turned up). Bletti was using a manouvreable freeride and surf foil and I, and most others, advanced freeride or race foils, two very different styles requiring different kites. It was good to catch up and see the difference in gear.

Comparing a cloud used on a wave with wave foil board, to a ram air foil with race board and foil on a race circuit is pointless. They are both excellent in their own environment. When I go to Mauritius in July, I will be taking North Mono's for wave and free riding.

I think at the end of this discussion, as mentioned by Bigtone in a previous post, runjase needs to specify what kind of foiling he is interested in as the riding style will be a much greater determining factor for the best kite for light wind, rather than the "Best" kite for light winds.

See ya's above the water ;-)

DM

Macster
VIC, 193 posts
25 Apr 2018 5:27PM
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ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

There are big differences between foil and LEI kites and it isn't just the weight. Projected power for tube kites is far less than a foil due to the heavy "C" shaped arc of the kite, aspect ratio also plays a big part. Hi aspect (Ram air foils) turn more slowly and are more susceptible to changes in wind direction and gusts when standing still, but when at speed, they generate their own power and apparent wind direction through their speed making them much easier to control that when at rest. This is coupled with high aspect low drag efficient wings to produce speeds sometimes triple wind speed. The twin skins of the foil enable it to fly much faster with less drag. The lower aspect Clouds provide a fast turning, generally stable, power on demand style flying which suits wave and freeride much better than a high aspect Foil.

Unfortunately the wind at Melville yesterday was not light at all with the average probably around 12 knots, gusting to 15 or 16 and lulling down to maybe 8 knots. I was very comfortable on my 11.5 on 18m lines in the lulls and averages, but was pretty well lit up to the max in the gusts (at speed on a cross wind reach).

Bletti turned up and flew his 13.4 Cloud, he also looked well powered. There was really little point in comparing the two in the conditions we had (and I was knackered after almost 2 hours on the water before he turned up). Bletti was using a manouvreable freeride and surf foil and I, and most others, advanced freeride or race foils, two very different styles requiring different kites. It was good to catch up and see the difference in gear.

Comparing a cloud used on a wave with wave foil board, to a ram air foil with race board and foil on a race circuit is pointless. They are both excellent in their own environment. When I go to Mauritius in July, I will be taking North Mono's for wave and free riding.

I think at the end of this discussion, as mentioned by Bigtone in a previous post, runjase needs to specify what kind of foiling he is interested in as the riding style will be a much greater determining factor for the best kite for light wind, rather than the "Best" kite for light winds.

See ya's above the water ;-)

DM


Lol. So the foil killed the cloud?!

Joking aside, and sorry to whoever started this thread, it has evolved into a useful pros and cons of different makes and what works for people. I agree, there is no one solution for every foiler.

And to that end, I was going to sell my ocean rodeo flite 14.5m cause i hardly use it anymore when foiling but I think I have a master plan:

Im going to use my Flite in iffy wind that is 6-9 knots +. If the wind dies I have the advantage of an LEI to lay on whilst i wait for the wind to pick up.

I will use my 9m Hyperlink for 8-9 knots +

14 knots I ditch the foil, pump up the North Vegas and get on the twin tip for some freestyle.

Kiteboarding is an awesome sport with so many options for riders and conditions.

The only advice I can offer to the orginal poster is that I have tried some 30+ kites now and there's nothing I love more than experimenting and trying different models.

I have even been foiling on my Vegas (c kite) that was awkward but do-able.

Demo as many people's kites as you can and see what you like.

bigtone667
NSW, 906 posts
25 Apr 2018 7:24PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Macster said..

ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

There are big differences between foil and LEI kites and it isn't just the weight. Projected power for tube kites is far less than a foil due to the heavy "C" shaped arc of the kite, aspect ratio also plays a big part. Hi aspect (Ram air foils) turn more slowly and are more susceptible to changes in wind direction and gusts when standing still, but when at speed, they generate their own power and apparent wind direction through their speed making them much easier to control that when at rest. This is coupled with high aspect low drag efficient wings to produce speeds sometimes triple wind speed. The twin skins of the foil enable it to fly much faster with less drag. The lower aspect Clouds provide a fast turning, generally stable, power on demand style flying which suits wave and freeride much better than a high aspect Foil.

Unfortunately the wind at Melville yesterday was not light at all with the average probably around 12 knots, gusting to 15 or 16 and lulling down to maybe 8 knots. I was very comfortable on my 11.5 on 18m lines in the lulls and averages, but was pretty well lit up to the max in the gusts (at speed on a cross wind reach).

Bletti turned up and flew his 13.4 Cloud, he also looked well powered. There was really little point in comparing the two in the conditions we had (and I was knackered after almost 2 hours on the water before he turned up). Bletti was using a manouvreable freeride and surf foil and I, and most others, advanced freeride or race foils, two very different styles requiring different kites. It was good to catch up and see the difference in gear.

Comparing a cloud used on a wave with wave foil board, to a ram air foil with race board and foil on a race circuit is pointless. They are both excellent in their own environment. When I go to Mauritius in July, I will be taking North Mono's for wave and free riding.

I think at the end of this discussion, as mentioned by Bigtone in a previous post, runjase needs to specify what kind of foiling he is interested in as the riding style will be a much greater determining factor for the best kite for light wind, rather than the "Best" kite for light winds.

See ya's above the water ;-)

DM



Lol. So the foil killed the cloud?!

Joking aside, and sorry to whoever started this thread, it has evolved into a useful pros and cons of different makes and what works for people. I agree, there is no one solution for every foiler.

And to that end, I was going to sell my ocean rodeo flite 14.5m cause i hardly use it anymore when foiling but I think I have a master plan:

Im going to use my Flite in iffy wind that is 6-9 knots +. If the wind dies I have the advantage of an LEI to lay on whilst i wait for the wind to pick up.

I will use my 9m Hyperlink for 8-9 knots +

14 knots I ditch the foil, pump up the North Vegas and get on the twin tip for some freestyle.

Kiteboarding is an awesome sport with so many options for riders and conditions.

The only advice I can offer to the orginal poster is that I have tried some 30+ kites now and there's nothing I love more than experimenting and trying different models.

I have even been foiling on my Vegas (c kite) that was awkward but do-able.

Demo as many people's kites as you can and see what you like.


I have thought about dumping my big foil kites a few times now ... but...

The winds (10 to 12knots) arrival today coincided with a super low tide..... so I whipped out the 18m chrono and TT until mid tide. It was heap of fun jumping and riding the little ankle biters

Once mid tide hit, I flew the 13.4m Cloud and foil.

Both kite types still have a place in my armoury.

Bletti
WA, 155 posts
26 Apr 2018 1:02AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Macster said..


ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

There are big differences between foil and LEI kites and it isn't just the weight. Projected power for tube kites is far less than a foil due to the heavy "C" shaped arc of the kite, aspect ratio also plays a big part. Hi aspect (Ram air foils) turn more slowly and are more susceptible to changes in wind direction and gusts when standing still, but when at speed, they generate their own power and apparent wind direction through their speed making them much easier to control that when at rest. This is coupled with high aspect low drag efficient wings to produce speeds sometimes triple wind speed. The twin skins of the foil enable it to fly much faster with less drag. The lower aspect Clouds provide a fast turning, generally stable, power on demand style flying which suits wave and freeride much better than a high aspect Foil.

Unfortunately the wind at Melville yesterday was not light at all with the average probably around 12 knots, gusting to 15 or 16 and lulling down to maybe 8 knots. I was very comfortable on my 11.5 on 18m lines in the lulls and averages, but was pretty well lit up to the max in the gusts (at speed on a cross wind reach).

Bletti turned up and flew his 13.4 Cloud, he also looked well powered. There was really little point in comparing the two in the conditions we had (and I was knackered after almost 2 hours on the water before he turned up). Bletti was using a manouvreable freeride and surf foil and I, and most others, advanced freeride or race foils, two very different styles requiring different kites. It was good to catch up and see the difference in gear.

Comparing a cloud used on a wave with wave foil board, to a ram air foil with race board and foil on a race circuit is pointless. They are both excellent in their own environment. When I go to Mauritius in July, I will be taking North Mono's for wave and free riding.

I think at the end of this discussion, as mentioned by Bigtone in a previous post, runjase needs to specify what kind of foiling he is interested in as the riding style will be a much greater determining factor for the best kite for light wind, rather than the "Best" kite for light winds.

See ya's above the water ;-)

DM




Lol. So the foil killed the cloud?!

Joking aside, and sorry to whoever started this thread, it has evolved into a useful pros and cons of different makes and what works for people. I agree, there is no one solution for every foiler.

And to that end, I was going to sell my ocean rodeo flite 14.5m cause i hardly use it anymore when foiling but I think I have a master plan:

Im going to use my Flite in iffy wind that is 6-9 knots +. If the wind dies I have the advantage of an LEI to lay on whilst i wait for the wind to pick up.

I will use my 9m Hyperlink for 8-9 knots +

14 knots I ditch the foil, pump up the North Vegas and get on the twin tip for some freestyle.

Kiteboarding is an awesome sport with so many options for riders and conditions.

The only advice I can offer to the orginal poster is that I have tried some 30+ kites now and there's nothing I love more than experimenting and trying different models.

I have even been foiling on my Vegas (c kite) that was awkward but do-able.

Demo as many people's kites as you can and see what you like.



I wouldn't say the cloud was killed :p I was comfortable yesterday in stronger wind and it still performs well when it's lighter which to me is more desirable for a low wind kite that is used in changing conditions vs chasing absolute minimum wind capability on a oversized foil kite that gets overpowered.

Today was lighter than yesterday and I was the last on the water with the cloud till after sunset after both race foils left the water. Once both were off the water I demonstrated several intentional crashes and water launches. Honestly it's by far the easiest and quickest relaunching kite I've used in lightish wind. I use to be scared of learning to gybe in light wind in fear of a failed gybe causing my foil kite to overfly, bowtie and crash. With the cloud in a missed gybe I can usually catch it on one line if happens to hindenburg (rarer than with a foil kite) and spin it back into the air, but worst case scenario if it does crash it's not game over as it often is with a high aspect foil kite. My air gybes have become much more reliable knowing I don't have to fear breaking my foil kite or having to swim in if I mess up. Frankly unless I'm on a racecourse I'd much rather be on freeride orientated gear cruising around which opens up more freedom to explore and push abilities. There might be specific steady super light conditions I'd take my 15m r1 out in, but for 95% of the time the Cloud is more comfortable, versatile and fun.

dachopper
WA, 1328 posts
26 Apr 2018 1:30AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
bigtone667 said..

Macster said..


ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

There are big differences between foil and LEI kites and it isn't just the weight. Projected power for tube kites is far less than a foil due to the heavy "C" shaped arc of the kite, aspect ratio also plays a big part. Hi aspect (Ram air foils) turn more slowly and are more susceptible to changes in wind direction and gusts when standing still, but when at speed, they generate their own power and apparent wind direction through their speed making them much easier to control that when at rest. This is coupled with high aspect low drag efficient wings to produce speeds sometimes triple wind speed. The twin skins of the foil enable it to fly much faster with less drag. The lower aspect Clouds provide a fast turning, generally stable, power on demand style flying which suits wave and freeride much better than a high aspect Foil.

Unfortunately the wind at Melville yesterday was not light at all with the average probably around 12 knots, gusting to 15 or 16 and lulling down to maybe 8 knots. I was very comfortable on my 11.5 on 18m lines in the lulls and averages, but was pretty well lit up to the max in the gusts (at speed on a cross wind reach).

Bletti turned up and flew his 13.4 Cloud, he also looked well powered. There was really little point in comparing the two in the conditions we had (and I was knackered after almost 2 hours on the water before he turned up). Bletti was using a manouvreable freeride and surf foil and I, and most others, advanced freeride or race foils, two very different styles requiring different kites. It was good to catch up and see the difference in gear.

Comparing a cloud used on a wave with wave foil board, to a ram air foil with race board and foil on a race circuit is pointless. They are both excellent in their own environment. When I go to Mauritius in July, I will be taking North Mono's for wave and free riding.

I think at the end of this discussion, as mentioned by Bigtone in a previous post, runjase needs to specify what kind of foiling he is interested in as the riding style will be a much greater determining factor for the best kite for light wind, rather than the "Best" kite for light winds.

See ya's above the water ;-)

DM




Lol. So the foil killed the cloud?!

Joking aside, and sorry to whoever started this thread, it has evolved into a useful pros and cons of different makes and what works for people. I agree, there is no one solution for every foiler.

And to that end, I was going to sell my ocean rodeo flite 14.5m cause i hardly use it anymore when foiling but I think I have a master plan:

Im going to use my Flite in iffy wind that is 6-9 knots +. If the wind dies I have the advantage of an LEI to lay on whilst i wait for the wind to pick up.

I will use my 9m Hyperlink for 8-9 knots +

14 knots I ditch the foil, pump up the North Vegas and get on the twin tip for some freestyle.

Kiteboarding is an awesome sport with so many options for riders and conditions.

The only advice I can offer to the orginal poster is that I have tried some 30+ kites now and there's nothing I love more than experimenting and trying different models.

I have even been foiling on my Vegas (c kite) that was awkward but do-able.

Demo as many people's kites as you can and see what you like.



I have thought about dumping my big foil kites a few times now ... but...

The winds (10 to 12knots) arrival today coincided with a super low tide..... so I whipped out the 18m chrono and TT until mid tide. It was heap of fun jumping and riding the little ankle biters

Once mid tide hit, I flew the 13.4m Cloud and foil.

Both kite types still have a place in my armoury.


The common theme seems to be.... guys don't enjoy riding large kites period, on foils and prefer to build apparent wind using something slightly smaller because of the crap handling of large kites??

bigtone667
NSW, 906 posts
26 Apr 2018 5:54AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
dachopper said..

bigtone667 said..


Macster said..



ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

There are big differences between foil and LEI kites and it isn't just the weight. Projected power for tube kites is far less than a foil due to the heavy "C" shaped arc of the kite, aspect ratio also plays a big part. Hi aspect (Ram air foils) turn more slowly and are more susceptible to changes in wind direction and gusts when standing still, but when at speed, they generate their own power and apparent wind direction through their speed making them much easier to control that when at rest. This is coupled with high aspect low drag efficient wings to produce speeds sometimes triple wind speed. The twin skins of the foil enable it to fly much faster with less drag. The lower aspect Clouds provide a fast turning, generally stable, power on demand style flying which suits wave and freeride much better than a high aspect Foil.

Unfortunately the wind at Melville yesterday was not light at all with the average probably around 12 knots, gusting to 15 or 16 and lulling down to maybe 8 knots. I was very comfortable on my 11.5 on 18m lines in the lulls and averages, but was pretty well lit up to the max in the gusts (at speed on a cross wind reach).

Bletti turned up and flew his 13.4 Cloud, he also looked well powered. There was really little point in comparing the two in the conditions we had (and I was knackered after almost 2 hours on the water before he turned up). Bletti was using a manouvreable freeride and surf foil and I, and most others, advanced freeride or race foils, two very different styles requiring different kites. It was good to catch up and see the difference in gear.

Comparing a cloud used on a wave with wave foil board, to a ram air foil with race board and foil on a race circuit is pointless. They are both excellent in their own environment. When I go to Mauritius in July, I will be taking North Mono's for wave and free riding.

I think at the end of this discussion, as mentioned by Bigtone in a previous post, runjase needs to specify what kind of foiling he is interested in as the riding style will be a much greater determining factor for the best kite for light wind, rather than the "Best" kite for light winds.

See ya's above the water ;-)

DM





Lol. So the foil killed the cloud?!

Joking aside, and sorry to whoever started this thread, it has evolved into a useful pros and cons of different makes and what works for people. I agree, there is no one solution for every foiler.

And to that end, I was going to sell my ocean rodeo flite 14.5m cause i hardly use it anymore when foiling but I think I have a master plan:

Im going to use my Flite in iffy wind that is 6-9 knots +. If the wind dies I have the advantage of an LEI to lay on whilst i wait for the wind to pick up.

I will use my 9m Hyperlink for 8-9 knots +

14 knots I ditch the foil, pump up the North Vegas and get on the twin tip for some freestyle.

Kiteboarding is an awesome sport with so many options for riders and conditions.

The only advice I can offer to the orginal poster is that I have tried some 30+ kites now and there's nothing I love more than experimenting and trying different models.

I have even been foiling on my Vegas (c kite) that was awkward but do-able.

Demo as many people's kites as you can and see what you like.




I have thought about dumping my big foil kites a few times now ... but...

The winds (10 to 12knots) arrival today coincided with a super low tide..... so I whipped out the 18m chrono and TT until mid tide. It was heap of fun jumping and riding the little ankle biters

Once mid tide hit, I flew the 13.4m Cloud and foil.

Both kite types still have a place in my armoury.



The common theme seems to be.... guys don't enjoy riding large kites period, on foils and prefer to build apparent wind using something slightly smaller because of the crap handling of large kites??


For me, that is a fair statement.

snalberski
WA, 554 posts
26 Apr 2018 2:00PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
dachopper said..

bigtone667 said..


Macster said..



ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Peeps,

There are big differences between foil and LEI kites and it isn't just the weight. Projected power for tube kites is far less than a foil due to the heavy "C" shaped arc of the kite, aspect ratio also plays a big part. Hi aspect (Ram air foils) turn more slowly and are more susceptible to changes in wind direction and gusts when standing still, but when at speed, they generate their own power and apparent wind direction through their speed making them much easier to control that when at rest. This is coupled with high aspect low drag efficient wings to produce speeds sometimes triple wind speed. The twin skins of the foil enable it to fly much faster with less drag. The lower aspect Clouds provide a fast turning, generally stable, power on demand style flying which suits wave and freeride much better than a high aspect Foil.

Unfortunately the wind at Melville yesterday was not light at all with the average probably around 12 knots, gusting to 15 or 16 and lulling down to maybe 8 knots. I was very comfortable on my 11.5 on 18m lines in the lulls and averages, but was pretty well lit up to the max in the gusts (at speed on a cross wind reach).

Bletti turned up and flew his 13.4 Cloud, he also looked well powered. There was really little point in comparing the two in the conditions we had (and I was knackered after almost 2 hours on the water before he turned up). Bletti was using a manouvreable freeride and surf foil and I, and most others, advanced freeride or race foils, two very different styles requiring different kites. It was good to catch up and see the difference in gear.

Comparing a cloud used on a wave with wave foil board, to a ram air foil with race board and foil on a race circuit is pointless. They are both excellent in their own environment. When I go to Mauritius in July, I will be taking North Mono's for wave and free riding.

I think at the end of this discussion, as mentioned by Bigtone in a previous post, runjase needs to specify what kind of foiling he is interested in as the riding style will be a much greater determining factor for the best kite for light wind, rather than the "Best" kite for light winds.

See ya's above the water ;-)

DM





Lol. So the foil killed the cloud?!

Joking aside, and sorry to whoever started this thread, it has evolved into a useful pros and cons of different makes and what works for people. I agree, there is no one solution for every foiler.

And to that end, I was going to sell my ocean rodeo flite 14.5m cause i hardly use it anymore when foiling but I think I have a master plan:

Im going to use my Flite in iffy wind that is 6-9 knots +. If the wind dies I have the advantage of an LEI to lay on whilst i wait for the wind to pick up.

I will use my 9m Hyperlink for 8-9 knots +

14 knots I ditch the foil, pump up the North Vegas and get on the twin tip for some freestyle.

Kiteboarding is an awesome sport with so many options for riders and conditions.

The only advice I can offer to the orginal poster is that I have tried some 30+ kites now and there's nothing I love more than experimenting and trying different models.

I have even been foiling on my Vegas (c kite) that was awkward but do-able.

Demo as many people's kites as you can and see what you like.




I have thought about dumping my big foil kites a few times now ... but...

The winds (10 to 12knots) arrival today coincided with a super low tide..... so I whipped out the 18m chrono and TT until mid tide. It was heap of fun jumping and riding the little ankle biters

Once mid tide hit, I flew the 13.4m Cloud and foil.

Both kite types still have a place in my armoury.



The common theme seems to be.... guys don't enjoy riding large kites period, on foils and prefer to build apparent wind using something slightly smaller because of the crap handling of large kites??


I think everyone would prefer a smaller more agile kite provided they offered the qualites.... which for me is not the case. A mid size single strut kite will not have the float and and boost of a large foil kite. Someone else may prefer something different in any given conditions. That just means there is a wider choice, not a more correct choice.

dachopper
WA, 1328 posts
26 Apr 2018 4:26PM
Thumbs Up

!!!!!!!!!!

RAL INN
VIC, 2443 posts
26 Apr 2018 7:46PM
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Select to expand quote
dachopper said..
!!!!!!!!!!



Gunnar must have a lot of Euro kite tourists at his spot.
glad he's ok.
but he's right in that of all the water sports he mentioned, Kiters stand out as the least caring.
sure they will look out for those within their Little clique.
but as a whole we need to lift our game.

DukeSilver
WA, 201 posts
26 Apr 2018 7:00PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
RAL INN said..

dachopper said..
!!!!!!!!!!




Gunnar must have a lot of Euro kite tourists at his spot.
glad he's ok.
but he's right in that of all the water sports he mentioned, Kiters stand out as the least caring.
sure they will look out for those within their Little clique.
but as a whole we need to lift our game.


Disappointing to learn of this scenario. I know I check with any kiters who look like they are experiencing difficulties and I've had kiters ask if I'm ok when body dragging to my board etc. I think many kiters in my local spots in Perth are good like that.

weebitbreezy
333 posts
26 Apr 2018 7:48PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
RAL INN said..


Gunnar must have a lot of Euro kite tourists at his spot.
glad he's ok.
but he's right in that of all the water sports he mentioned, Kiters stand out as the least caring.
sure they will look out for those within their Little clique.
but as a whole we need to lift our game.



Out of interest is this very different in Aus? Anecdotally its a bit of a mix here in the UK.

Went to help a friend (whose kite had inverted and was looping dragging him onto the beach) and kept getting buzzed by some dude who was jumping over the spit. So here I am running through the shallows with my own kite still in the air and I was having to stop and wait for some dude who was demanding priority as he kited through the shallows. We challenged him about it afterwards and he claimed to have not seen anything (yeah like you can't see a kite repeatedly looping 30m downwind of you). Left a bit of a bitter taste really as it was a local and you like to think that everyone from your area is that much better as a human being than the visitors.

Plenty of stories locally of people losing boards and kites attempting to save drowning people to balance it up. Been out to check on a few pole dancers when they were a long way out a couple of times. Always had a friendly thumbs up in response.

emmafoils
36 posts
26 Apr 2018 11:39PM
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Sobering video from Gunnar. Interesting debate about helmets in the comments below the video which Gunnar is losing (IMHO)

dachopper
WA, 1328 posts
27 Apr 2018 12:51AM
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I had a line come loose on my LEI a couple times, but I wonder if it's worse when it happens on the foils after watching this?

DukeSilver
WA, 201 posts
28 Apr 2018 8:44AM
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I assume any of you who visit "Kiteforum" will be aware of "Famous" Frank Rosin. The above link shows his Ozone Hyperlink 9m first impressions video. He is a superb foiler and it's worth watching all his vids.

This is what got me interested in buying a Hyperlink in the first place. It doesn't look too much slower than my 9m Catalyst and will give me better low end - probably down to 8kts (79kg).

Once the wind hits 12 or 13 kts, I would still much rather be on a tube kite when foiling. But for that 8 - 12 range, I think the HL will shine over a 12m LEI if only because it stays in the air.

emmafoils
36 posts
28 Apr 2018 10:23AM
Thumbs Up

I have done the experiment several times and I can absolutely assure you that a good light weight medium aspect foil kite (Pulsion 12 in my case) will stay up in the air during super low lulls better than a Cloud 13.4 or 13.5. My Clouds are 10.4 and smaller for that reason.

snalberski
WA, 554 posts
28 Apr 2018 11:21AM
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Select to expand quote
DukeSilver said..
But for that 8 - 12 range, I think the HL will shine over a 12m LEI if only because it stays in the air.


I wouldn't count on a 9m necessarily having enough at 8 knts . My 9m Hyperlink gets me down to 12 no problem... by that I mean flying well with lowish boosting.... I have just ordered a 12m UL for 8-15 knt range which I am hoping will have me cranking at 12 knts for big boosting and cruising at 8 knts. I am slightly heavier than you which could make a difference but if you can demo one that would always be advised.

DukeSilver
WA, 201 posts
28 Apr 2018 5:24PM
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snalberski said..

DukeSilver said..
But for that 8 - 12 range, I think the HL will shine over a 12m LEI if only because it stays in the air.



I wouldn't count on a 9m necessarily having enough at 8 knts . My 9m Hyperlink gets me down to 12 no problem... by that I mean flying well with lowish boosting.... I have just ordered a 12m UL for 8-15 knt range which I am hoping will have me cranking at 12 knts for big boosting and cruising at 8 knts. I am slightly heavier than you which could make a difference but if you can demo one that would always be advised.


Well I'm fairly confident it will get me that low. I'm going on a foil in 10kts on a 3 strut Ozone Cat and if the Hyperlink is all it's hyped up to be (pun intended) I'll be disappointed if it doesn't go that low. Plenty of user reports saying it will allow foiling in 8kts so i"m taking the punt. I've got about 4kg on you and I'm strapless so enough power to boost isn't my concern. I'm not the worlds greatest kiter, but I pride myself in my ability to extract every bit of power from a kite in marginal conditions.

dachopper
WA, 1328 posts
28 Apr 2018 5:41PM
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This is what the designer says (Ken Winner): "The Mono 15 can be good for extremely light and steady wind on a hydrofoil. A light, steady seabreeze that ranges from 5 knots to gusts of 10 knots should be good. In such a situation, flying with a 5th line helps with relaunch. The Mono is also good for light wind on a Nugget or big twintip. Mainly because it hangs in the air and relaunches well - both owing to light weight - but also because it has a bit more raw grunty power in light wind. That said, kites with one or zero struts have a bit more backstall tendency in low-power conditions."

5 kts is pretty good for an LEI.... what do you think ? propaganda?

DukeSilver
WA, 201 posts
28 Apr 2018 6:01PM
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emmafoils said..
I have done the experiment several times and I can absolutely assure you that a good light weight medium aspect foil kite (Pulsion 12 in my case) will stay up in the air during super low lulls better than a Cloud 13.4 or 13.5. My Clouds are 10.4 and smaller for that reason.


Agree re the smaller Clouds over the bigger sizes. I've had a Cloud C5 in a smaller size and it was a lovely little kite to foil with in stronger winds. I was watching a Cloud D 13.4m the other day. It looked quite slow and almost clumsy looking in turns - no more nimble than the high A/R foil kites that were also out. It almost looked on the edge of buckling when down looping but to be fair it was probably over - powered at the time as I was comfortably powered on a 9m. If I ever bought another Cloud it would be in the smaller sizes again for sure. I think an 8 would be the max I'd get. Quite nice kites to foil with for sure. Lots of grunt and fun to fly.

snalberski
WA, 554 posts
28 Apr 2018 6:57PM
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Select to expand quote
snalberski said..

DukeSilver said..
But for that 8 - 12 range, I think the HL will shine over a 12m LEI if only because it stays in the air.



I wouldn't count on a 9m necessarily having enough at 8 knts . My 9m Hyperlink gets me down to 12 no problem... by that I mean flying well with lowish boosting.... I have just ordered a 12m UL for 8-15 knt range which I am hoping will have me cranking at 12 knts for big boosting and cruising at 8 knts. I am slightly heavier than you which could make a difference but if you can demo one that would always be advised.


Either way I'm sure you'll love the kite

Macster
VIC, 193 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:29AM
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Select to expand quote
snalberski said..

DukeSilver said..
But for that 8 - 12 range, I think the HL will shine over a 12m LEI if only because it stays in the air.



I wouldn't count on a 9m necessarily having enough at 8 knts . My 9m Hyperlink gets me down to 12 no problem... by that I mean flying well with lowish boosting.... I have just ordered a 12m UL for 8-15 knt range which I am hoping will have me cranking at 12 knts for big boosting and cruising at 8 knts. I am slightly heavier than you which could make a difference but if you can demo one that would always be advised.


Yeah. 8 knots, 23m lines. 88 kgs. Moses foil. 9m hyperlink. Requires kiteloop at waterstart or with 26m lines no kiteloop

DukeSilver
WA, 201 posts
29 Apr 2018 7:33AM
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Either way I'm sure you'll love the kite


I hope so - I ordered it yesterday. I got the 9m in orange. It will take a week or 2 to get here but I'll do a quick review on it when I've had a few sessions on it. I'm really excited to get it now. Knowing my luck, as soon as it arrives there'll be a week of 25kts+.

DukeSilver
WA, 201 posts
29 Apr 2018 7:35AM
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Macster said..

snalberski said..


DukeSilver said..
But for that 8 - 12 range, I think the HL will shine over a 12m LEI if only because it stays in the air.




I wouldn't count on a 9m necessarily having enough at 8 knts . My 9m Hyperlink gets me down to 12 no problem... by that I mean flying well with lowish boosting.... I have just ordered a 12m UL for 8-15 knt range which I am hoping will have me cranking at 12 knts for big boosting and cruising at 8 knts. I am slightly heavier than you which could make a difference but if you can demo one that would always be advised.



Yeah. 8 knots, 23m lines. 88 kgs. Moses foil. 9m hyperlink. Requires kiteloop at waterstart or with 26m lines no kiteloop


Good to know. Cheers for the info. BTW, which Moses foil are you on? A Fluente is my next foiling purchase.

warwickl
NSW, 952 posts
29 Apr 2018 10:10AM
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Select to expand quote
DukeSilver said..

emmafoils said..
I have done the experiment several times and I can absolutely assure you that a good light weight medium aspect foil kite (Pulsion 12 in my case) will stay up in the air during super low lulls better than a Cloud 13.4 or 13.5. My Clouds are 10.4 and smaller for that reason.



Agree re the smaller Clouds over the bigger sizes. I've had a Cloud C5 in a smaller size and it was a lovely little kite to foil with in stronger winds. I was watching a Cloud D 13.4m the other day. It looked quite slow and almost clumsy looking in turns - no more nimble than the high A/R foil kites that were also out. It almost looked on the edge of buckling when down looping but to be fair it was probably over - powered at the time as I was comfortably powered on a 9m. If I ever bought another Cloud it would be in the smaller sizes again for sure. I think an 8 would be the max I'd get. Quite nice kites to foil with for sure. Lots of grunt and fun to fly.


I have 10.4D and kited the 13.4 D. Correctly inflated and trimmed I found the 13.4 D stayed up longer than the 10.4D.
Both amazing regardless - absoulty nothing clumsy about any D version Cloud kite.

DukeSilver
WA, 201 posts
29 Apr 2018 11:13AM
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Select to expand quote
warwickl said..

DukeSilver said..


emmafoils said..
I have done the experiment several times and I can absolutely assure you that a good light weight medium aspect foil kite (Pulsion 12 in my case) will stay up in the air during super low lulls better than a Cloud 13.4 or 13.5. My Clouds are 10.4 and smaller for that reason.




Agree re the smaller Clouds over the bigger sizes. I've had a Cloud C5 in a smaller size and it was a lovely little kite to foil with in stronger winds. I was watching a Cloud D 13.4m the other day. It looked quite slow and almost clumsy looking in turns - no more nimble than the high A/R foil kites that were also out. It almost looked on the edge of buckling when down looping but to be fair it was probably over - powered at the time as I was comfortably powered on a 9m. If I ever bought another Cloud it would be in the smaller sizes again for sure. I think an 8 would be the max I'd get. Quite nice kites to foil with for sure. Lots of grunt and fun to fly.



I have 10.4D and kited the 13.4 D. Correctly inflated and trimmed I found the 13.4 D stayed up longer than the 10.4D.
Both amazing regardless - absoulty nothing clumsy about any D version Cloud kite.


No I'm sure that's the case. Just as an observer I was surprised by the slow turning speed - but I guess it's a 13.4m kite so it's not going to be the most nimble kite on the water in any case.

warwickl
NSW, 952 posts
29 Apr 2018 3:25PM
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Select to expand quote
DukeSilver said..

warwickl said..


DukeSilver said..



emmafoils said..
I have done the experiment several times and I can absolutely assure you that a good light weight medium aspect foil kite (Pulsion 12 in my case) will stay up in the air during super low lulls better than a Cloud 13.4 or 13.5. My Clouds are 10.4 and smaller for that reason.





Agree re the smaller Clouds over the bigger sizes. I've had a Cloud C5 in a smaller size and it was a lovely little kite to foil with in stronger winds. I was watching a Cloud D 13.4m the other day. It looked quite slow and almost clumsy looking in turns - no more nimble than the high A/R foil kites that were also out. It almost looked on the edge of buckling when down looping but to be fair it was probably over - powered at the time as I was comfortably powered on a 9m. If I ever bought another Cloud it would be in the smaller sizes again for sure. I think an 8 would be the max I'd get. Quite nice kites to foil with for sure. Lots of grunt and fun to fly.




I have 10.4D and kited the 13.4 D. Correctly inflated and trimmed I found the 13.4 D stayed up longer than the 10.4D.
Both amazing regardless - absoulty nothing clumsy about any D version Cloud kite.



No I'm sure that's the case. Just as an observer I was surprised by the slow turning speed - but I guess it's a 13.4m kite so it's not going to be the most nimble kite on the water in any case.


Forgot to mention on 32m race lines. Race lines minimise bow in lines due to lower resistance and as such kite is more responsive.
I've only just started using race lines and can not believe the difference.

max_ob
QLD, 162 posts
29 Apr 2018 7:52PM
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Select to expand quote
warwickl said..

DukeSilver said..


warwickl said..



DukeSilver said..




emmafoils said..
I have done the experiment several times and I can absolutely assure you that a good light weight medium aspect foil kite (Pulsion 12 in my case) will stay up in the air during super low lulls better than a Cloud 13.4 or 13.5. My Clouds are 10.4 and smaller for that reason.






Agree re the smaller Clouds over the bigger sizes. I've had a Cloud C5 in a smaller size and it was a lovely little kite to foil with in stronger winds. I was watching a Cloud D 13.4m the other day. It looked quite slow and almost clumsy looking in turns - no more nimble than the high A/R foil kites that were also out. It almost looked on the edge of buckling when down looping but to be fair it was probably over - powered at the time as I was comfortably powered on a 9m. If I ever bought another Cloud it would be in the smaller sizes again for sure. I think an 8 would be the max I'd get. Quite nice kites to foil with for sure. Lots of grunt and fun to fly.





I have 10.4D and kited the 13.4 D. Correctly inflated and trimmed I found the 13.4 D stayed up longer than the 10.4D.
Both amazing regardless - absoulty nothing clumsy about any D version Cloud kite.




No I'm sure that's the case. Just as an observer I was surprised by the slow turning speed - but I guess it's a 13.4m kite so it's not going to be the most nimble kite on the water in any case.



Forgot to mention on 32m race lines. Race lines minimise bow in lines due to lower resistance and as such kite is more responsive.
I've only just started using race lines and can not believe the difference.



Are you using the ozone race lines with 100kg for back and 200 kg for front?

Macster
VIC, 193 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:30PM
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Select to expand quote
DukeSilver said..

Macster said..


snalberski said..



DukeSilver said..
But for that 8 - 12 range, I think the HL will shine over a 12m LEI if only because it stays in the air.





I wouldn't count on a 9m necessarily having enough at 8 knts . My 9m Hyperlink gets me down to 12 no problem... by that I mean flying well with lowish boosting.... I have just ordered a 12m UL for 8-15 knt range which I am hoping will have me cranking at 12 knts for big boosting and cruising at 8 knts. I am slightly heavier than you which could make a difference but if you can demo one that would always be advised.




Yeah. 8 knots, 23m lines. 88 kgs. Moses foil. 9m hyperlink. Requires kiteloop at waterstart or with 26m lines no kiteloop



Good to know. Cheers for the info. BTW, which Moses foil are you on? A Fluente is my next foiling purchase.


Yeah Fluente. Im using the 2018 ozone bar with the new thinner lines too

Macster
VIC, 193 posts
29 Apr 2018 8:34PM
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If it helps, I ride with a guy who has a 9m, 12m and 15m Liquid Force solo and the same weight.

The 9m Hyperlink is somewhere between the 12m and 15m Solo for power and speed.



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Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling


"What is the best Light wind kite for Foil board?" started by Runjase