Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Small low volume foil board

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Created by horey69 2 months ago, 18 Jul 2019
horey69
QLD, 275 posts
18 Jul 2019 3:15PM
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What are the advantages of a small foil board(say around 1m long) with low volume.
What's every body riding?
I see Kanaha is pretty popular,
Anyone ridden the Slingshot Micro 3'6"
Is any one doing custom or trying to make pocket board in Aus?
Thoughts appreciated
Horey

Livit
WA, 454 posts
18 Jul 2019 1:26PM
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horey69 said..
What are the advantages of a small foil board(say around 1m long) with low volume.
What's every body riding?
I see Kanaha is pretty popular,
Anyone ridden the Slingshot Micro 3'6"
Is any one doing custom or trying to make pocket board in Aus?
Thoughts appreciated
Horey


You should hit up Mr Pilz on this forum. www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Profile/Details.aspx?member=Pilz

He is pumping out some great and solid pocket boards with foot hooks out of his home workshop. Tough build with PVC core, carbon twill and cork. He can throw pretty solid jumps and hasn't snapped a board yet.

horey69
QLD, 275 posts
18 Jul 2019 5:06PM
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Nice I'll check it out.

bigtone667
NSW, 1060 posts
18 Jul 2019 7:07PM
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Naish Hover 130 is pretty good for a small low volume board.

hilly
WA, 4808 posts
18 Jul 2019 6:08PM
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Axis MVP range is awesome

Kamikuza
QLD, 4200 posts
18 Jul 2019 8:26PM
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I just got a 2016 Slingshot Dwarfcraft 3'6" (it was cheap!) but the 2019 Micro is lower volume again. Been raining since it arrived and forecast to continue the next three days, of course new gear curse strikes again.

It's heavy. Or rather, it seems heavy -- it's 3.3kg, same as my 145x48. And it looks really really short :D

Smaller boards are more nimble, basically. Less swing weight so more zippy to whip around, less nose to poke into the water at the bottom of a wave, less width to catch... Might depend on your riding style though.

Enjoyed the "bigger" DC and the Naish 127 Hover too. Everyone says there's no bad difference between the 4'6" and 3'6", once you adapt.

Groove Skate is a popular board, but good luck getting one out of Europe for a reasonable price...!

Pilz
WA, 22 posts
18 Jul 2019 9:00PM
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Hi Horey, I build pocket boards let me know if you are interested have made a few in different length and shapes, mainly around the 1 meter mark.
Can either build it with exposed cork that way you don't need a traction pad or visible carbon fibre with a deck pad.
The boards have a high density pvc core and a multi layer carbon fibre skin with a layer of UD , biaxial and plain cloth.

Pilz
WA, 22 posts
18 Jul 2019 9:09PM
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Pilz
WA, 22 posts
18 Jul 2019 9:11PM
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LeighMajor
NSW, 318 posts
18 Jul 2019 11:16PM
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Select to expand quote
horey69 said..
What are the advantages of a small foil board(say around 1m long) with low volume.
What's every body riding?
I see Kanaha is pretty popular,
Anyone ridden the Slingshot Micro 3'6"
Is any one doing custom or trying to make pocket board in Aus?
Thoughts appreciated
Horey


Hey Horey
jshapes have some pocket boards.






horey69
QLD, 275 posts
19 Jul 2019 6:51AM
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Pilz,
Thanks for the info your boards look great I'll keep you in mind.
Leigh,
One of the boys up here has that tombstone 1m board, he's struggling to adjust to it after using his Naish 127
I like the idea of less swing weight being more playful. I have a 4'6" SS DC, loved it with straps but I hurt my foot soI caned the straps and the DC became cumbersome to maneuver for water starts.

LeighMajor
NSW, 318 posts
19 Jul 2019 8:09AM
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Select to expand quote
horey69 said..
Pilz,
Thanks for the info your boards look great I'll keep you in mind.
Leigh,
One of the boys up here has that tombstone 1m board, he's struggling to adjust to it after using his Naish 127
I like the idea of less swing weight being more playful. I have a 4'6" SS DC, loved it with straps but I hurt my foot soI caned the straps and the DC became cumbersome to maneuver for water starts.


Arhhh bugger Straps,have done similar.I use a front hook now or none.
I have a older jshapes 155cm
and 135cm.They are lightweight.
wont go much smaller because of my weight.

djdojo
VIC, 1536 posts
19 Jul 2019 2:09PM
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I can't imagine riding bigger than 100x43cm now. My next board will be smaller. In addition to nimbleness of reduced swing weight, I'd add the visual experience of having even less between you and the elements - the hovering experience is accentuated in your peripheral vision.

As for volume, my rig (converted cut-down slingsHOT refraction and zeeko carbon-carver) has so little volume that it only just floats. This means that for crashes it digs into the water and comes to a stop more quickly, and doesn't shoot off downwind while you're stuffing about with a downed kite, unlike some other rigs with more volume. The nose and rails are bright yellow to help spot it. (I also have a 100x43 converted naish momentum that I'd be willing to part with if anyone's interested).





Pilz
WA, 22 posts
19 Jul 2019 12:40PM
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djdojo said..
I can't imagine riding bigger than 100x43cm now. My next board will be smaller. In addition to nimbleness of reduced swing weight, I'd add the visual experience of having even less between you and the elements - the hovering experience is accentuated in your peripheral vision.

As for volume, my rig (converted cut-down slingsHOT refraction and zeeko carbon-carver) has so little volume that it only just floats. This means that for crashes it digs into the water and comes to a stop more quickly, and doesn't shoot off downwind while you're stuffing about with a downed kite, unlike some other rigs with more volume. The nose and rails are bright yellow to help spot it. (I also have a 100x43 converted naish momentum that I'd be willing to part with if anyone's interested).






Yes agree wouldn't go much bigger
than 100cm.

Livit
WA, 454 posts
19 Jul 2019 1:37PM
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hilly said..
Axis MVP range is awesome


What's the weight of the 105?

hilly
WA, 4808 posts
19 Jul 2019 1:48PM
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Select to expand quote
Livit said..

hilly said..
Axis MVP range is awesome



What's the weight of the 105?


I have the 145 so not sure. Similar to a tt I would guess. My board is at another house so cannot weigh it sorry.

emmafoils
74 posts
19 Jul 2019 5:07PM
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Small boards make an amazing difference. I was skeptical of all the claims until I tried them for myself. You feel much more connected to your wings and everything reacts quicker. It totally changes the foiling experience. I actually found foot switches easier due to this "more connected" feeling. 90 plus % of boards out there are bigger than necessary if you are intermediate or better. There is no reason for all that board. The smaller and lighter the better but there are diminishing returns at less than 90 cm. The skill level to get a small board is when you FIRST make a couple of successful foiling foot switches. Your success rate does not have to be high. But the board must be very well built and have the correct shape. It must be light and stiff or you lose the benefits. Since you have so little water line, the shape is critical....must have plenty of forward rocker.....a small board is often underwater during starts and a board whose nose catches the water is miserable. There is also less board support during touchdowns....the correct shape is needed to manage touchdowns. Friends I trust tell me the SS small boards do not have enough rocker. Also, I would avoid the thin, twintip/snowboard construction type foil boards....they are generally not stiff enough.

There are many custom builders in the market now as most of the major manufacturers haven't figured all this out yet and are still catching up. (This is why Groove and Kanaha are so popular). It is relatively easy to make a small light foil board. It is hard to get it stiff enough and very, very hard to get the shape/rocker right. There are many considerations, for example, if the rocker starts too soon, your feet will not be level when riding. It also takes skill to get a track into a small rockered board. Groove, Kanaha and Ketos boards are good examples of good shape. Kanaha has the magic sauce as far as shape for a small board. I think he avoids publishing pictures of this rocker line. I would buy Groove, Kanaha or Ketos. For antipodean builders, the J Shapes 100 looks like good size and weight but I don't see any profile images of the shape on their website. They describe it as "slight nose rocker". I would probably want more. If you buy custom, make sure it will look like one of these three. (I ride a Kanaha 94 cm. I have no industry affiliations)

Kamikuza
QLD, 4200 posts
19 Jul 2019 8:52PM
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Feet aren't flat on a Skate and the Kanaha Shapes looks to have a rocker line.

The SS board (for example) has a flatter deck but because it's thicker, there's some rocker there...the older ones, anyway. From memory, the Jshapes is the same.

We'll see They all seem too narrow in the tail for my size 12 tastes...


thecarbonco
QLD, 5 posts
20 Jul 2019 5:13PM
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Hi all. Small boards are awesome. Less swing weight. More fun. Throw big turns and pump the hell out of them. Here is what I have been manufacturing in Brisbane.
www.thecarbonco.net for more















riddim1
QLD, 115 posts
21 Jul 2019 1:15PM
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Nice looking boards!

Looks like you do some Foil/Surf crossovers as well

eppo
WA, 7263 posts
21 Jul 2019 1:40PM
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Nice boards man.

Falco
76 posts
21 Jul 2019 5:17PM
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Hey Pilz how much do your cork boards go for without straps, shoot me a pm if you don't want to post here

KBGhost
QLD, 37 posts
21 Jul 2019 8:46PM
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I've ordered a 100cm today from Mitch at thecarbonco. He's doing it all bright yellow so it's easy to spot and with a leash plug so I can leash it to me if I'm struggling with say reloading the North chicken loop onto my rope spreader underwater (fun times) or tie it to a bouy to hot swap foils in the lake. Super excited

KBGhost
QLD, 37 posts
3 Aug 2019 9:55PM
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Bit of foil porn for you all. I'm absolutely stoked with this little beauty.








KBGhost
QLD, 37 posts
3 Aug 2019 10:35PM
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My next board will also be from the carbonco. That's how impressed I am. Super light, guaranteed bombproof, looks sweet with the matte finish. Mitch was a pleasure to deal with from start to finish, you can tell when someone's in it for the love of it. 2 weeks after order it was made to my spec and delivered to my door.

Quick ride report.. I had an hour in the water yesterday in crappy gusty wind. I'm early ish intermediate I guess, ride strapless, just working on foot switches now don't make 95% of them. Can carve to toeside though and generally don't fall off for no reason. It was also my first real try of a new front wing.

Felt great carrying out, so light. As expected starting was challenging. Got up on my 3rd try, immediately forgot to fly kite was I was watching the board and dragged a wing tip. Then it took me about 6 or 7 tries to get going. After that I had some decent runs.

Really enjoyed the connected and Carvy feeling of the board. Once I was on the foil I was totally at home on the board, felt like there were no wrong places to put your feet. Confident enough to play with a narrow stance and even try skiing and a skiing transition on my first session. Had a few times of getting up first or second try even with the fluky wind. Also had once or twice where I tripped over the nose like heading downwind over chop. A longer board would have recovered. Going longer than 600 mast would help there too.

A eventually I ended up in a shallow part of the lake and struggled to get up, wind had eased a the bit and foil kept touching the mud and stopping. At that point I packed it in.

Small board is definitely more difficult to start.. but I'm sure I'll adapt pretty quick and won't want to go back... It just feels like a step forward

www.relive.cc/view/gh38339597915

emmafoils
74 posts
4 Aug 2019 2:42AM
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Select to expand quote
KBGhost said..
My next board will also be from the carbonco. That's how impressed I am. Super light, guaranteed bombproof, looks sweet with the matte finish. Mitch was a pleasure to deal with from start to finish, you can tell when someone's in it for the love of it. 2 weeks after order it was made to my spec and delivered to my door.

Quick ride report.. I had an hour in the water yesterday in crappy gusty wind. I'm early ish intermediate I guess, ride strapless, just working on foot switches now don't make 95% of them. Can carve to toeside though and generally don't fall off for no reason. It was also my first real try of a new front wing.

Felt great carrying out, so light. As expected starting was challenging. Got up on my 3rd try, immediately forgot to fly kite was I was watching the board and dragged a wing tip. Then it took me about 6 or 7 tries to get going. After that I had some decent runs.

Really enjoyed the connected and Carvy feeling of the board. Once I was on the foil I was totally at home on the board, felt like there were no wrong places to put your feet. Confident enough to play with a narrow stance and even try skiing and a skiing transition on my first session. Had a few times of getting up first or second try even with the fluky wind. Also had once or twice where I tripped over the nose like heading downwind over chop. A longer board would have recovered. Going longer than 600 mast would help there too.

A eventually I ended up in a shallow part of the lake and struggled to get up, wind had eased a the bit and foil kept touching the mud and stopping. At that point I packed it in.

Small board is definitely more difficult to start.. but I'm sure I'll adapt pretty quick and won't want to go back... It just feels like a step forward

www.relive.cc/view/gh38339597915



Waterstarts would be easier if board had more rocker

KBGhost
QLD, 37 posts
4 Aug 2019 12:04PM
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Yeah I think it's a trade off though. Lots of rocker on a small board leaves you with your front foot higher or on a slope. I haven't tried it but I think that might feel weird. We'll see how the shape works out over time I guess.

djdojo
VIC, 1536 posts
4 Aug 2019 12:47PM
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^^^ Front foot higher and on a slope is what I've steadily moved towards over three pocketboards, and as I've become a more skilled foiler. Once you start riding in more wind and dropping down decent sized swell, you will want your front foot higher and on a slope.

I suspect that most beginners are riding with a wide stance, knees fairly bent, and lots of tension throughout their torso and legs. Once you get better, your stance will naturally narrow, you'll be able to ride with less bracing and bending of knees, and you'll become more sensitive to minor forces and shifts, and therefore be in a better position to notice your desired rocker from a stance perspective and a waterstart perspective. The better you get the easier it is to waterstart anything from a door to a banana so I'm not too concerned about that side, but happily it coincides somewhat with my desired rocker for riding.

Livit
WA, 454 posts
4 Aug 2019 1:45PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
emmafoils said..

KBGhost said..
My next board will also be from the carbonco. That's how impressed I am. Super light, guaranteed bombproof, looks sweet with the matte finish. Mitch was a pleasure to deal with from start to finish, you can tell when someone's in it for the love of it. 2 weeks after order it was made to my spec and delivered to my door.

Quick ride report.. I had an hour in the water yesterday in crappy gusty wind. I'm early ish intermediate I guess, ride strapless, just working on foot switches now don't make 95% of them. Can carve to toeside though and generally don't fall off for no reason. It was also my first real try of a new front wing.

Felt great carrying out, so light. As expected starting was challenging. Got up on my 3rd try, immediately forgot to fly kite was I was watching the board and dragged a wing tip. Then it took me about 6 or 7 tries to get going. After that I had some decent runs.

Really enjoyed the connected and Carvy feeling of the board. Once I was on the foil I was totally at home on the board, felt like there were no wrong places to put your feet. Confident enough to play with a narrow stance and even try skiing and a skiing transition on my first session. Had a few times of getting up first or second try even with the fluky wind. Also had once or twice where I tripped over the nose like heading downwind over chop. A longer board would have recovered. Going longer than 600 mast would help there too.

A eventually I ended up in a shallow part of the lake and struggled to get up, wind had eased a the bit and foil kept touching the mud and stopping. At that point I packed it in.

Small board is definitely more difficult to start.. but I'm sure I'll adapt pretty quick and won't want to go back... It just feels like a step forward

www.relive.cc/view/gh38339597915




Waterstarts would be easier if board had more rocker


Looks like these boards have enough rocker.

horey69
QLD, 275 posts
4 Aug 2019 7:45PM
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So I ended up talking to Mitch at the carbon co, I picked up this little Nang 100. Such a playful feel, so responsive and light weight. Very happy with it. And under 1k
Cheers Mitch.

thecarbonco
QLD, 5 posts
4 Aug 2019 8:04PM
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Cheers for the feedback KBGhost and all. Taking opinions like this into consideration is how brands continue to develop. IMO the rockers on the Nang 100 work perfectly for the intended use which is getting on shorter boards, throwing big turns, working the Z-axis and having lots of fun on less board. When riding i spend time in a wide stance and in a narrow stance. It keeps it exciting and reduces fatigue. Selfish but i committed to a rocker that i like and works for me and the local rippers testing them. The stock rocker is aimed at early planing (flat is fast, e.g. skimboarding) and having a nice level surface when up and riding. Foil board or crossover surf foil board it has been working great on Sunshine coast waves and in Moreton bay. If you want more rocker as a personal preference its no problem. I would prefer to get custom anyway.



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"Small low volume foil board" started by horey69