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Shinn P-Foil (notes from use)

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Created by weebitbreezy > 9 months ago, 22 Jun 2018
weebitbreezy
617 posts
22 Jun 2018 8:02PM
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I haven't seen much in the way of reviews on this foil and as I have had approaching 10 hours of riding time on mine I thought it might be worth a quick review. Note I'm reviewing the V1 version. There is a new rear stab since I bought mine that is meant to help with high speed stability.

About the testing:
I'm using a shinn el stubbo board rather than the jackson. Have previously been riding a Moses Silente and a Clearwater home build thing.
I'm running the 75cm mast (30") rather than the 90cm as the prevailing wind is onshore and the beach is steeply shelved (difficult to wade out far enough to not get washed back before you start - plus I'm lazy). I'm still a beginner - maybe 20-30 hours of foiling practice. Can ride S-lines, carve on the foil and footswitch on the water. Working on flying footswitches and boosting at present.

First impressions:

There is only one impression you will have. God Lord thats a 'king big front wing! I think the yellow colour makes it look even bigger than it is. Otherwise its a standard alu mast/fuselage configuration. Pozidrive screws to hold it together is a different touch but at least it comes with an appropriate sized screw driver (my regular household screwdrivers were all too small to fit properly). Even so I have to double check and often re-torque mid session just to nip up the housing. I'm guessing its meant to stop you overtightening the fittings but the gap between tight enough and floppy seems to be about 1/32th of a turn. Its a minor annoyance but .....
On the plus side, the slide on fitting system to the board is good. With a board like mine with fixed inserts it makes it quick and easy to assemble.

On the water:

Pops up fast as you'd expect with a front wing that big. In fact more often than not, you can pop straight up onto the foil. I like this as this low end lift allows me to ride small kites (I was out on my 7m the other day in maybe 13-15knots and felt comfortable) but you are aware it does have a little more drag. Is this a problem. Depends on how you want to ride. Annoyingly it does make it a little slower than my mates Zeeko in a straight line and you do notice that it doesn't glide as well as something higher aspect ( you can pump it along easily to make up for the reduced glide) but the payoff is incredible slow speed riding and stall speeds. It feels like you can ride at walking pace almost! This is so confidence inspiring when it comes to picking up the basics (tacks, gybes, foot switches) as you can pretty much remove the fear factor because you can go so slowly - and get away with it.

So the marketing prattles on about how this is the easiest foil to learn on. Is it? Thats pretty tricky to say. Its more stable at tracking in a straight line than many low aspect foils despite not having winglets/curved profile. Its also probably the most pitch forgiving foil I have ridden (yeah not a lot I know) but I have to say that its not like you could just jump on one of these for the first time and start riding. The buckaroo stage is still going to be there. It 'feels' like you might knock a little bit of time off at the beginner stage. I guess its a bit like those beginner focused kites. You know they are helping your progression but you still wish you were riding something a bit cooler.

Otherwise, jumps alright as far as I can tell (though as I tend to ride on the low power end of the scale I'm only really getting about 2m of height but thats more than I normally get in 11-12knots of wind) and the landings are surprisingly soft and within a couple of attempts I managed my first landing on the foil (possibly not that surprising given the low heights I'm jumping but I was happy all the same)

Would I buy again. Yes. Seems good. Shinn aftersales has been particularly good (I had an accident with the screws holding the mast on and they sent some through for free next day). I might be tempted to go the K-foil though as that is probably the that could take you from a beginner all the way through to advanced free riding without upgrading. I'll be playing with this one though for a while longer until I'm ready to upgrade to the next wing.

KIT33R
NSW, 1714 posts
25 Jun 2018 7:09PM
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I also have a Shinn P foil but being a raw beginner on foils I'm not going to comment performance just yet. But I have noticed that the screws that hold the mast to the base plate work loose. I've just invested in replacement screws with Alan key heads and a bit of lock tight on the heads. It should be easy enough to unscew when necessary. I've put thread lube on the screw shaft to minimize corrosion effects (aluminum and stainless are not good bed fellows).

weebitbreezy
617 posts
25 Jun 2018 7:35PM
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I have heard of people using thicker alternatives to Tefgel (and even threadlock where they don't want to disassemble) but I'm not sure what the advantage is. The mast will fill with water so you need to drain it.

If I come across a solution I'll mention it here.

Interested to hear what you use as a kite with your P-foil. I'm starting to notice that some kites don't seem to suit it as well as others. I flew a borrowed strutless Storm Voyager with it and didn't enjoy the characteristics. It would seek the water if you flew it low and although very light had a slow speed inertia you needed to overcome in order to turn it (would start turning but then stall until you really committed with the bar - at which point it would zip around). Felt good at speed though and in all was a lot more like my general freeride/boosting kites which are a lot heavier, rather than a flyweight kite. My friend who rides a standard zeeko on the other hand, raves about it. Go figure!

My personal feelings at present are that more reactive kites which steer quickly when depowered suit the P-foil better as you can ride the foil slower than most so you still want that reactive feeling even when you are only going walking pace. In short, I felt like I need to concentrate on the kite a lot more (couldn't bring the kite over the top in gybes as I couldn't maintain enough line tension so needed to downloop it instead - which I'm not good at on a foil) in comparison to my regular kites that you can just bring it over the top. Interested to hear what you are flying as a comparison.

KIT33R
NSW, 1714 posts
26 Jun 2018 9:06AM
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I'll keep you posted on my progress. After 15 years kiting I'm a raw beginner again.

I've put Lock Tight on the screw heads only so it should be possible to unscrew on a regular basis. I think the angle of the original countersunk screws may be slightly different to the bevel in the plate which is why they don't lock in. The new screws with the Allan Key head are slightly different in taper. Very fortunate here to have a specialty fastener shop near by, called Southern Fasteners. They have every possible screw, nut and fastener that is known to man.

As for kites. I have Ozone Reos (3 strut surf kites). Years ago I tried a one strut kite but did not like it. The surf kites are fast and very user friendly, they drift when necessary and fly in incredibly light winds. They do not hindenburg either when overhead.

One of our local kiters has Cloud kites and is a genius on foils. They have no trim strap but a very long bar throw.

Suthofoil
WA, 3 posts
26 Jun 2018 9:54AM
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I started on the P Foils on the 600mm mast, then the 900mm mast and have made my way to the smaller F Foils. I use a Shinn Jackson board. As I am a beginner I really cannot compare to anything else, certainly the Shinn package has been good for me and I am hooked on foiling.

In regard to the top bolts coming loose its been a problem, and ultimately I sheared a bolt on the water. I was using Loktite and daily tightening sometimes mid session. My fix was add a 3rd bolt in the center, thats not hard all that was needed was tap the mast which already had the channel and countersink the plate plus use loktite and do not separate. I left the mast attatched to the plate semi permanently for 3 months and recently undid them succesfully without significant corrosion, maybe Loktite also has some anticorrosive properties. Mark Shinn is aware of the issue. The different wing and mast lenghts did not seem to have an effect the bolts loosened regardless. I foil in Perth so salt water.

With the solution of 3 bolts and semi permanent attatchment I am really happy its a very good beginner/ intermediate package.

KIT33R
NSW, 1714 posts
26 Jun 2018 1:07PM
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Thanks Suthofoil for some good insight. I'm hoping that a third bolt is not necessary. I'll have to wait a few days to see if my new bolts do the trick. The winter winds are not favourable at present. I'd agree it's a good package. Interestingly, the bolts to the fuselage do not work loose.

Suthofoil
WA, 3 posts
26 Jun 2018 11:21AM
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Hi Kit33R, Funny you mention it the bolts to the fuselage do work loose but not to the same extent, I use a drop of Loktite so the fuselage bolts are tightish , but i undo each time simply for ease of transport. There must be a lot of high frequency vibrations happening to loosen bolts.

KIT33R
NSW, 1714 posts
26 Jun 2018 2:08PM
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When you say that Mark Shinn is aware of the issue has there been any attempt at a permanent solution?

I've just been Googling the problem of bolts coming undone. One suggestion is to apply plumbers tape to the clean dry thread. The tape should go in a clockwise direction around the threads so that it doesn't unravel. If the problem persists I'll try this.

HardyB
2 posts
31 Mar 2019 12:42AM
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I wanted to follow up on the problem people are having with the screws loosening. I have never foiled and my local shop owner is strongly recommending the P foil, but I'm hesitant because of this issue. I'd like to hear from people who have experience with the P foil whether they are experiencing the same problem or not? Both positive and negative would be appreciated.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
31 Mar 2019 5:46PM
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I put Loctite blue on my SS foil; the bolts worked loose. Loctite and water don't mix I guess.

Never had anything work loose with genuine TefGel. I dunno why you'd bother with anything else.

Lambie
QLD, 738 posts
31 Mar 2019 6:40PM
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Kit33R I have a Shin Jackson (145) and the M6 'bolts' that come with it have really small heads and I need to use big washers to mount my Zeeko foil - and the screws come loose WTF ? Im using Tefgel but wondering if I shoudnt be using loctitie! But I do need to seperate the foil and board to transport - Also the 'shinn bolts' are phillips head screws - crap really - but Im struggling to find some decent stainless steel dome head M6 bolts with allen key drive - One mob called Pro Bolt (motorcycle specalists) have some but to buy 5 will cost $42 (inc postage) - thats neary $8+ for an M6 x 25 mm stainless screw !!
I wonder if there is a better supplier for dome head metric 'bolts' ?? my web search isnt encouraging - damn !!

HardyB
2 posts
31 Mar 2019 8:17PM
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Thanks for the responses. I'm new to all of this. I didn't realize Tefgel had holding properties. I thought it was just for corrosion.

RAL INN
VIC, 2880 posts
1 Apr 2019 6:04AM
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I would not give any credence to tefgel as a thread lock.
bolts come lose mainly due to insufficient seating that allows the parts being held together to move.
or the bolt is of insufficient strength to resist stretching.
most bolts stretch a bit when tightening which acts like a spring then returns to length when undone.
but if under tight or over tight you lose this spring tension.



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"Shinn P-Foil (notes from use)" started by weebitbreezy