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Mast length freeride

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Created by kitcho207 A week ago, 30 Oct 2019
kitcho207
NSW, 843 posts
30 Oct 2019 10:24AM
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Hey. I'm running around on a Slingshot NF2 with 24inch mast. I also have a 35inch but feel it's too long as most of the locals have ditched the long masts and gone back to 24 or 30.
I am close to cutting down my long mast to 30inch.
What are people's thoughts on this?
Cheers
Kitch

warwickl
NSW, 1269 posts
30 Oct 2019 11:43AM
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I also have a 35.5 Slingshot mast and interested to know How to cut down and if there is material to thread?
I have all the tools.

hilly
WA, 4892 posts
30 Oct 2019 10:19AM
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kitcho207 said..
Hey. I'm running around on a Slingshot NF2 with 24inch mast. I also have a 35inch but feel it's too long as most of the locals have ditched the long masts and gone back to 24 or 30.
I am close to cutting down my long mast to 30inch.
What are people's thoughts on this?
Cheers
Kitch


30 seems pretty good.

Livit
WA, 462 posts
30 Oct 2019 11:29AM
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kitcho207 said..
Hey. I'm running around on a Slingshot NF2 with 24inch mast. I also have a 35inch but feel it's too long as most of the locals have ditched the long masts and gone back to 24 or 30.
I am close to cutting down my long mast to 30inch.
What are people's thoughts on this?
Cheers
Kitch


Are you riding in shallow waters? If not, why would you do that?

I have been freeriding for 5 years, started with 100cm mast then went down to 90cm. I recently went back to 101 and also got a 71 for the shallows and prone surfing.

Longer masts are way better in ocean chop and waves.

Fromwhat you are saying, you already have 60 and 75 so why would you chop your 90 down to 70 if you already have one?

djdojo
VIC, 1538 posts
30 Oct 2019 1:52PM
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^^^ Yep, as soon as you're in decent wind and fairly open water you'll want at least 90cm. I ride 100cm (strapless freeride).

emmafoils
81 posts
30 Oct 2019 4:14PM
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don't cut your mast unless you have a real good reason

DukeSilver
WA, 285 posts
30 Oct 2019 4:43PM
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Slingshot make a 30" mast called the Solo. Buy that. The longest Slingshot alu mast is fine for freeride foiling. Unless of course you are confined to shallow water.

horey69
QLD, 290 posts
31 Oct 2019 6:19AM
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I went up to the 35 inch slingshot mast while learning, I found it ungainly and cumbersome. I bought the 30 inch and loved it more agile.
Now that I'm more experienced I'm riding a 41 inch lift. I don't think I'll ever go shorter again.
Horey

jbarnes85
NSW, 20 posts
31 Oct 2019 9:43AM
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I learnt on a 95cm. I wouldnt have chosen to learn on a shorter mast. In my opinion a shorter mast just means less room for error but harder falls. The only reason I think I would use a smaller one is for travelling.

eppo
WA, 7339 posts
31 Oct 2019 8:45AM
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75cm mast seems okay to me in the ocean and agile for riding foil swells etc. ? So that's 30 inches I suppose for all you imperial lovers. Suppose if I was after super speed I'd go bigger.

ActionSportsWA
WA, 720 posts
31 Oct 2019 10:47AM
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Hi Kitcho,

A general freeride size is 90cm. This gives great freeride in normal conditions with good stability making it easy to use. If you ride the ocen chop, a 100cm mast is better to deal with the crests and troughs of waves, especially if you are riding hard upwind.

Race masts are usually 100-111cm to give depth of the wings when cranking upwing in chop. At speed, stability is not your concern as much as the wingtips breaching the surface causing a ventilation.

Surfing is best on 60-80cm masts depending on the speed and size of the waves and whether you are pumping or not.

DON'T cut your Slingy mast. 35" is only 90cm ... ish.

DM

kitcho207
NSW, 843 posts
31 Oct 2019 8:23PM
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Thanks for all the feedback guys.
I have 24 and 35inch.
The 24 is fantastic for our shallow pond. Super flat water.
I'll keep the mast long and give it a crack in the open water.
Much appreciated. Thanks people

weebitbreezy
414 posts
1 Nov 2019 7:45PM
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I'm riding a 30 inch mast. Its the sweet spot locally for slower foils like the wave foils. I'm currently riding a pretty big wing (P-Foil)

I prefer it to the 36" because I have a lot of onshore wind when its light. You can still walk out deep enough to not hit the bottom. With the 36" you need to body drag out and then in again at the end of the session. Not so bad when its warm but when its cold its a miserable way to start (and means you are always cold at the end of the session too). Its lighter which is nicer too. It feels a little more nimble too (although I suspect this is partly enhanced by the slow wing)

I prefer over the 24" because its long enough not to ventilate in the chop.

I had all 3 lengths. Sold the 24" but would keep the 30" regardless as its just as easy for beginners borrowing the kit as the 24". When I finally get around to finding a faster wing second hand I'll be looking to go up to the 36" but on the slow wings in light winds you don't need the extra length as you aren't leaning the mast over much.

kitcho207
NSW, 843 posts
4 Nov 2019 11:58AM
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weebitbreezy said..
I'm riding a 30 inch mast. Its the sweet spot locally for slower foils like the wave foils. I'm currently riding a pretty big wing (P-Foil)

I prefer it to the 36" because I have a lot of onshore wind when its light. You can still walk out deep enough to not hit the bottom. With the 36" you need to body drag out and then in again at the end of the session. Not so bad when its warm but when its cold its a miserable way to start (and means you are always cold at the end of the session too). Its lighter which is nicer too. It feels a little more nimble too (although I suspect this is partly enhanced by the slow wing)

I prefer over the 24" because its long enough not to ventilate in the chop.

I had all 3 lengths. Sold the 24" but would keep the 30" regardless as its just as easy for beginners borrowing the kit as the 24". When I finally get around to finding a faster wing second hand I'll be looking to go up to the 36" but on the slow wings in light winds you don't need the extra length as you aren't leaning the mast over much.


Thanks for your input too. They would some of the main reasons my locals stick with shorter masts too. Cheers

Kamikuza
QLD, 4429 posts
4 Nov 2019 2:18PM
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Define "freeride"

Only on-shore wind here, lake swell or small ocean swell, shallow starting spots. I'm on 75cm with 72 and 82cm wings. I've tried 90cm mast again after riding the 75 for a year, but it's not as responsive and the small but additional flex troubles me.

90 means you don't have to track the "terrain" as much but there's no overall benefit for me. I *am* going to cut it down to halfway between 90 and 75 though and see how that is...

Body-dragging back in? Stop directly upwind of your landing spot. Flip the board so it's deck down on the water (ie. upside down) and hold it that way under your arm. Then just loop the kite through the power zone and "surf" your board and self downwind.

weebitbreezy
414 posts
4 Nov 2019 6:33PM
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I have a low volume (snowboard construction) board. It doesn't ride particularly well upside down (doesn't float above the water with the mast out and the rocker on the board tends to bury it into the water). I tend to ride in with it on its side downwind so not a great deal different but still body in the water.

The point was its a slosh of cold water at the end of the session. For shorter masts I can ride to waist deep and walk back.

Yeah. Free ride is an broad concept on a foil. I have seen footage of one of the Bridge brothers doing powered handle passes on a foil but I don't think many are trying freestyle.

Kamikuza
QLD, 4429 posts
4 Nov 2019 8:47PM
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weebitbreezy said..
I have a low volume (snowboard construction) board. It doesn't ride particularly well upside down (doesn't float above the water with the mast out and the rocker on the board tends to bury it into the water). I tend to ride in with it on its side downwind so not a great deal different but still body in the water.

The point was its a slosh of cold water at the end of the session. For shorter masts I can ride to waist deep and walk back.

Yeah. Free ride is an broad concept on a foil. I have seen footage of one of the Bridge brothers doing powered handle passes on a foil but I don't think many are trying freestyle.



The idea of turning it upside down is that it skips over the surface when the kite loops, rather than digging an edge or wing in.

Or just ride in with the wing really close to the surface, and step off the board.

I think a Bridge boy is in a YouTube riding right in to ankle deep water, but buggered if I can find it now. Bet he doesn't pay for his own wings. though

KBGhost
QLD, 48 posts
4 Nov 2019 9:27PM
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Just for a different opinion kitcho I reckon 750/30" would be perfect. I mostly ride 600 mast and love it.

Surf is harder tracking the height changes as you ride over swell. Especially with some speed up. Longer would be easier for that. But shorter is easier to handle strapless, and I'm learning to start between foamies and ride out on the foil. The guys with full length masts have to body drag out through the break and that sucks.

I would like to find a 750mm mast to suit an older axis but they don't make them any more. I have a 900 but I'm struggling to feel comfortable on it.

Anyway just my experience.

Jonesey32
QLD, 33 posts
Tuesday , 5 Nov 2019 7:58AM
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I have cut down an Aluminium mast before. It was a TKF mast, but I would guess that all the Aluminium masts are made the same way (extruded).The entire process took about 5 minutes. We cut the mast with a standard Mitre saw (ate through the aluminium like it wasn't there), filed the cut smooth, and tapped the bolt holes. Because the mast was extruded, the bolt holes went the entire way through, but obviously weren't tapped.
At the moment I am riding mostly on a 60cm mast so I can ride in waist deep water, where the small waves we get in the bay are starting to peak. I will switch to the 70cm if it's a bit windier, or I'll be riding in deeper water. I got rid of the 90cm after years of it just sitting there not being used. I just prefer the more direct feel of the shorter masts, and being able to start before the water reaches my harness... With the 60cm, I can step onto the board and ride away without even getting my rashie wet.

Kamikuza
QLD, 4429 posts
Tuesday , 5 Nov 2019 12:12PM
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KBGhost said..
Just for a different opinion kitcho I reckon 750/30" would be perfect. I mostly ride 600 mast and love it.

Surf is harder tracking the height changes as you ride over swell. Especially with some speed up. Longer would be easier for that. But shorter is easier to handle strapless, and I'm learning to start between foamies and ride out on the foil. The guys with full length masts have to body drag out through the break and that sucks.

I would like to find a 750mm mast to suit an older axis but they don't make them any more. I have a 900 but I'm struggling to feel comfortable on it.

Anyway just my experience.


IIRC those Axis masts are the same section as the Naish ones of a similar year...

KBGhost
QLD, 48 posts
Tuesday , 5 Nov 2019 10:06PM
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Thanks Kami I'll look for those too.
This guy in WA is giving away 450 & 600, I have them both, surely someone could use them?



Please view this ad:

Axis Foil Masts 45 and 60 for Kite,
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/east-perth/surfing/axis-foil-masts-45-and-60-for-kite/1232651016?

Kamikuza
QLD, 4429 posts
Tuesday , 5 Nov 2019 10:43PM
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It'll be the second gen Naish masts, not the first gen LF rebrand. Think Takuma used it as well...

TomW059
183 posts
Wednesday , 6 Nov 2019 8:42PM
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Way up here, 56N.
Some Guys swear by 30". Some say 36". A few on 38"(100+ cm). Few have tried all. A few that have been really riding all say 30" is really good.
I've been riding 35" for 3 years. While learning on small wing I was strongly considering 30". But was advised to stick with it.
Then finally big wings became available and that was big game changer.
I'm in open, choppy, confused and turbulent seas. Shallow launches, a lot of onshore winds and I'm not tall. Overall, I've found 35-36" is good. If anything, I'd consider 38"...
Often The chop and windswell are coming in different directions, there's so much water turbulence and standing waves that the extra length makes it easier to play.

airsail
QLD, 356 posts
Thursday , 7 Nov 2019 6:43AM
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As your skill improve a longer mast just becomes an advantage if water depth isn't an issue. I'm chasing wind swell to ride, rough and moving water, started on a 70 cm, thought wow, this is all I need.
Then I moved to a 90 cm mast, so much better, the breaching was cut way down and much more comfortable in the bigger swell.
Now on a carbon 101 cm mast and 1100 cm wing on a board with a large nose scoop, better again, breaching almost none existent. Powering back upwind with almost no need to follow the peaks and troughs.
But, when learning something new I often go back to the 70 mast on flat water, crashes aren't as big when you get ejected. Mast length really depends on what your local conditions are and you will get comfortable on any length with time.

spartacus
NSW, 95 posts
Saturday , 9 Nov 2019 6:49PM
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Hi Kitcho,
You already have a short mast, keep the length for the ocean swell. Saves so much "contouring" the swell on those bigger days.

Youngbreezy
WA, 575 posts
Sunday , 10 Nov 2019 1:42PM
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Kamikuza said..
Define "freeride"

Only on-shore wind here, lake swell or small ocean swell, shallow starting spots. I'm on 75cm with 72 and 82cm wings. I've tried 90cm mast again after riding the 75 for a year, but it's not as responsive and the small but additional flex troubles me.


I am with you on this one Kami. I have had 90cm 100cm 65cm 80cm and now 75cm. I think 70-80cm is an ideal length for free ride, long enough that it clears the chop well and you can still lean right over in carves. I think the longer masts do lose a bit of responsiveness, i find this to be particularly noticeable with the larger wings. I am also riding in waves and ocean chop and don't find it to be too much of a problem on a shorter mast

Kamikuza
QLD, 4429 posts
Sunday , 10 Nov 2019 7:44PM
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Youngbreezy said..

Kamikuza said..
Define "freeride"

Only on-shore wind here, lake swell or small ocean swell, shallow starting spots. I'm on 75cm with 72 and 82cm wings. I've tried 90cm mast again after riding the 75 for a year, but it's not as responsive and the small but additional flex troubles me.



I am with you on this one Kami. I have had 90cm 100cm 65cm 80cm and now 75cm. I think 70-80cm is an ideal length for free ride, long enough that it clears the chop well and you can still lean right over in carves. I think the longer masts do lose a bit of responsiveness, i find this to be particularly noticeable with the larger wings. I am also riding in waves and ocean chop and don't find it to be too much of a problem on a shorter mast


A "big" day on the lake is 8m kite and *maybe* 6 foot swell if you are generous and pick the good spots where the "waves" stack up...

The "75cm" mast is actually 725mm (I guess if you measure from the top of the plate down to the fuse, you get 75cm). I've 72 and 82 cm wings and it's good enough with the 72 that if you pick your spots to gybe you won't poke wing tips out badly.

I've Just cut my "90cm" mast down to 825mm on the theory that if the 72cm wing works nicely with a 72.5cm mast then the 82cm wing should work perfectly with the 82.5cm mast if I don't like that, I'll cut it to halfway between the "90cm" and the 75cm ... and if that doesn't feel good I'll just stick with 75

kitcho207
NSW, 843 posts
Yesterday , 12 Nov 2019 8:25AM
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was a really good discussion and ill take all the opinions and experience on board.
My freeride at the moment is still working on transitions but have a good feel and control of the glide. Looking to get out in choppier conditions and some waves/swell and starting to jump.
im going to keep it long for now and look for a spare mast to cut down to a mid length. then ill have all bases covered.

cheers
kitcho

Livit
WA, 462 posts
Yesterday , 12 Nov 2019 2:33PM
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Kamikaze said..
Define "freeride"

Only on-shore wind here, lake swell or small ocean swell, shallow starting spots. I'm on 75cm with 72 and 82cm wings. I've tried 90cm mast again after riding the 75 for a year, but it's not as responsive and the small but additional flex troubles me.



I am with you on this one Kami. I have had 90cm 100cm 65cm 80cm and now 75cm. I think 70-80cm is an ideal length for free ride, long enough that it clears the chop well and you can still lean right over in carves. I think the longer masts do lose a bit of responsiveness, i find this to be particularly noticeable with the larger wings. I am also riding in waves and ocean chop and don't find it to be too much of a problem on a shorter mast


Each to their own I suppose...personally I wouldn't go below 90cm especially riding in the open ocean.

I rode my Moses 683 back to back on the 101cm and 71cm and found the latter was a lot more prone to breaching. The longer mast is just a heap more fun to ride overall. No difference in term of responsiveness but that's what you'd expect from a quality carbon mast.



Kamikuza
QLD, 4429 posts
4 hours ago , 12 Nov 2019 8:37PM
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Livit said..
I rode my Moses 683 back to back on the 101cm and 71cm and found the latter was a lot more prone to breaching. The longer mast is just a heap more fun to ride overall. No difference in term of responsiveness but that's what you'd expect from a quality carbon mast.



Of course it'll breach more if you ride it like a 90cm mast Requires a bit of an adaption but is better...for my version of free ride.

Given how flexible the Moses 7Xcm mast the guys here have, I'm not surprised you notice no difference -- they wobble as much as the longer ones

EDIT: oh if that's your thing, that's cool. I know some windfoilers like flex. My definition of free ride involves as little as possible.

Livit
WA, 462 posts
4 hours ago , 12 Nov 2019 7:14PM
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Kamikuza said..

Livit said..
I rode my Moses 683 back to back on the 101cm and 71cm and found the latter was a lot more prone to breaching. The longer mast is just a heap more fun to ride overall. No difference in term of responsiveness but that's what you'd expect from a quality carbon mast.




Of course it'll breach more if you ride it like a 90cm mast Requires a bit of an adaption but is better...for my version of free ride.

Given how flexible the Moses 7Xcm mast the guys here have, I'm not surprised you notice no difference -- they wobble as much as the longer ones

EDIT: oh if that's your thing, that's cool. I know some windfoilers like flex. My definition of free ride involves as little as possible.


Whatever....



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"Mast length freeride" started by kitcho207