Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Big guys foiling setup

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Created by FoS 1 month ago, 2 Sep 2019
FoS
TAS, 1632 posts
2 Sep 2019 1:28PM
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Hey Guys,
I've been reading these threads and everyone seems to stop the foiling at around 100 Kg.
With some talking to people, I've been advised that 195CM and 125 Kg "You're not designed for foiling."
I will break masts and wings when I breach/jump etc.

So my questions are
Is this true ?
Who out there at this size has foiled (successfully or not) ?
What size/brand/model did you find the best for the various stages ?

I'm looking to go out on the 10-15 knot days and cover some serious distances, where self recovery would take an extended time.
Currently I'm looking at axis, slingshot and Naish gear

RAL INN
VIC, 2762 posts
2 Sep 2019 2:30PM
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Go for it but don't jump the Surf Sup size wings.
maybe go for a mid sized wing and settle for building a little speed before takeoff.
In Zeeko terms the Bullet with 950 Carver wing would be great.
The Blaster ( currently under a g) would also be great and jump able.
The XXLW Spitfire would suit but no jumping on that.

Swavek
WA, 315 posts
2 Sep 2019 1:14PM
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110 kg dry - no issues with Moses 91cm and 633 surfing wing (strapless board, no jumping of course)

emmafoils
76 posts
2 Sep 2019 4:01PM
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Armstrong is built like a tank

geared4knots
TAS, 2535 posts
2 Sep 2019 6:57PM
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Someone reply who has learnt TO FOIL at 125- 135 kgs .
looking for experience of learning compered to the 85kg guy.
we all know the gear will bust but what about the rest of it....

Duff15
VIC, 224 posts
2 Sep 2019 8:27PM
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105kegs

Moses 683 gets me moving with ease



Kamikuza
QLD, 4308 posts
2 Sep 2019 8:29PM
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Balls. I'm a few inches shorter but about as heavy. When the 60kg guys on surfboards can't get away from the beach on 12m kites, I can rock upwind on a 10m without effort.

I've had Liquid Foil Fun Fish, Slingshot HoverGlide, Axis kite foil and now Axis S-series 148 Ride board and the Surf carrot, and the 72 and 82cm S-series wings.

My current setup is Axis 75cm mast and 82cm wing, with the new Surf carrot or Ride 48 for 10 knots or less. The lake is shallow, and I prefer the crispness of the shorter mast over the 90cm one I have. Tempted to cut it down to 82cm though...

I've ridden three different Naish foils and board, three SS boards and HG foil, Cabrinha DA and the latest Carve, Alpine Access IIRC, a few Axis wings and probably others I can't remember.

You get what you pay for.
The Axis masts are the most rigid, no question, and tough ... and I know because I'm impatient, lazy and really hard on gear. I destroyed the unbreakable Fun Foil board, and continually bent the 1 inch thick fuselage running into the shallows while learning. I've run into the shallows mid-gybe on the Axis board hard and fast enough to twist the bottom of the mast microscopy (now 1mm offset, only person in the world to do that :D ) but the board is undamaged. Unlike the Naish or SS boards that cracked around the boxes

I found the SS way too heavy. The moment I picked up the Axis gear I knew I had to sell the SS. The Axis S-series foils are a tad heavier, but still not as bad.

Low aspect big wings like the Naish Surf or the Cab Carve are too roll twitchy for me; I prefer a little stability and the higher AR wings seem to offer that, with no loss of fun in waves.

So it depends what you want to do. I tried jumping for a while, but the weight of the foil gear hanging off my feet put me off. I do like boosting *off* the board though, good fun.

Surface area of the wing is what you want to consider IMO. For reference, my 82cm is ~1500cm2 and the 72 is ~1200cm2. I greatly prefer the 82, as it glides better for longer with less power from the kite, and the cruising speed is a tad lower, which makes riding waves and especially lake swell so much more fun.

Compare a few different sizes and see what you think.

bigtone667
NSW, 1075 posts
2 Sep 2019 8:47PM
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105kg....

If you have an appropriately large wing and appropriate board for initial planing then you will have no issue.

My "this will get me going rig" is a naish hover 155 skim board (easy planing) and an AXIS 102 wing (2000cm2)...... just match a kite and off I go.

I have ridden this rig with 17m kite from about 7 knots. Also ridden it with 4.8m kite up around 30 knots.

daniel_y
WA, 79 posts
2 Sep 2019 9:51PM
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I'm 105-110kg. Learnt on a 530 mm Axis front wing (600cm2 or so). Once i was comfortable riding it was great fun in 15knts plus, but did lack lift for my weight in light winds. Bought a 600 mm Axis wing (808 cm2) which gives me a low end of around 10-12 knots on a 8m kite. I do jump, but only strapless so nothing to extreme - so far haven't had any issues with breakage (touch wood).
Recently bought a bigger 820 mm axis surf/sup wing (1400cm2) - way more lift than the smaller kite foils and really stable, looking forward to giving it a test in some light winds.

At 125 kg in 10-15 knots I reckon a 1200-1400 cm2 wing would be perfect for learning, but still fast enough to be exiciting once you get the hang of it.

Puetz
NT, 2140 posts
3 Sep 2019 8:32AM
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... absolutely you can do it,,,, and its fun,,,, even us big boys can fly too!

I'm 120 - 125kg at 193cm,,,, learnt to foil on a mates North Speedster and now have my own, a Duotone Spirit Carve 950 (950cm2) with a 4'10" Pace board. I regularly get out in light winds using a 14m Evo and as the wind picks up to 15 knots plus, I put up a 9m Neo. If there is enough wind for the kite to fly then I can go. Once your up and running, rider weight is not as much of a problem like it is with surface bound gear.

I've also got an extra wing I swap over onto my set up, the Spirit GT which is smaller surface area (565cm2) wing for the times when I'm in the mood for speed runs. Takes a bit more board speed to get going so a bit more wind needed but it has better top end and is way more agile,,,, I wouldn't say more fun, just feels like your driving a sports car instead.

I've had no problems with gear failure and I've managed to clock up some miles too, even rode it in surf in Bali recently, which is fun, but I did push the boundaries a bit at low tide so hit the reef a few times with no problems so far, mind you I did scratch my shinny not so new toy.

I've ridden other brands and a big stand out was the J Shapes Cruiser (1076cm2) which is an all carbon setup. Super smooth and super fun too. My mates had his for 3 or so years and is going strong so don't be put off by the idea of all carbon gear.

Go for it dude, you won't ever be looking back wondering what to do on those 10 knot days,,,,, soon enough you'll be flying,,,,, it's gunna rock your world.

Cheers,

Robbie



eppo
WA, 7305 posts
3 Sep 2019 7:25AM
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Too big for foiling! Foiling opens up endless possibilities for bigger guys. Once up little kite needed so suites bigger guys just as much - infact if anything reduces significantly the limitations created by a large mass. Becomes an advantage to push down those bigger foils. My skinny ass gets handed to me on bigger wings if I'm not careful.

Whoever told you you are too big, never listen to their advice ever again for anything, they couldn't be more wrong.

tap into puetz and kami' above they know what they are talking about.

FoS
TAS, 1632 posts
3 Sep 2019 1:30PM
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Thanks everyone.
It looks like I'll go with a duotone setup maybe a little cheaper than axis and more available.

Foil = SPIRIT CARVE 950
Board = Free 5"0

Any comment appreciated
as mentioned special thanks to my comrades in size puet and kam
we should get pizza together

Puetz
NT, 2140 posts
3 Sep 2019 2:29PM
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FoS said..
Thanks everyone.
It looks like I'll go with a duotone setup maybe a little cheaper than axis and more available.

Foil = SPIRIT CARVE 950
Board = Free 5"0

Any comment appreciated
as mentioned special thanks to my comrades in size puet and kam
we should get pizza together


... in my opinion, all the brands are coming up with great gear now, so which ever way you go, you can't go wrong. I'm loving my setup so I think you'll love it too.

For me the Spirit Carve 950 is a great size wing as it combines the best bits of not only a larger wing for great glide but its not too big to be too slow either. It's definitely no slouch in the speed department too, l'll often be cruising around at 20 knots in barely 10 or so knots of wind. I've gotten it to 26.5 knots for short bursts but I believe its more comfortable at its top speeds of 25 knots. Its still super stable and steady at its top end.

Another thing that is helpful is the little wedge or shims you get with the Duotone gear, they absolutely work and can change the characteristics of your foiling experience. The mind still boggles how half or quarter of a degree here or there can make it feel so different. Bias it one way when your learning then bias it the other as you get more experienced and looking for a bit more.

Definitely love to catch up one day for beer and pizza when I come visit Tassie.

Cheers,

Robbie

Kamikuza
QLD, 4308 posts
3 Sep 2019 8:16PM
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I think the wing is too small but if you're into buzzing around at speed then it's a good fit.

I'm more into floating about on the swell, so more is more for me.

FoS
TAS, 1632 posts
4 Sep 2019 5:46AM
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I was wondering about that, some other advice was the larger float wings are too slow and will cause catapults.
I am thinking that after the initial learning, a large surf wing might be an addition for playing on the deep sandbars.

eppo
WA, 7305 posts
4 Sep 2019 7:41AM
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You mean ventalating right, not catapulting. Who are you getting this advice off ?

Pm some of these bigger boys and get some solid advice on size and stop listening to whoever you are talking to.

Kamikuza
QLD, 4308 posts
4 Sep 2019 9:56AM
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FoS said..
I was wondering about that, some other advice was the larger float wings are too slow and will cause catapults.
I am thinking that after the initial learning, a large surf wing might be an addition for playing on the deep sandbars.



Slow? My 820 has done just over 20 knots, but really why? Go slower and point upwind more at a comfy cruising speed.

And IMO the bigger the wing, the better the usable wind range. Don't need speed on a wave, but you don't want a draggy foil that needs a bunch of power from the kite either...I haven't ridden a "modern" surf foil that is though.

You'll only get catapulted if your balance is poor.

Puetz
NT, 2140 posts
4 Sep 2019 11:01AM
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Kamikuza said..
I think the wing is too small but if you're into buzzing around at speed then it's a good fit.

I'm more into floating about on the swell, so more is more for me.


... beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say,,,, I'm into cruising and buzzing around so a mid size wing is perfect combination of speed vs floating!

FoS
TAS, 1632 posts
4 Sep 2019 12:10PM
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eppo said..
You mean ventalating right, not catapulting. Who are you getting this advice off ?

Pm some of these bigger boys and get some solid advice on size and stop listening to whoever you are talking to.


that one was mackite or similar youtube.
if the kite is in the powerzone and the foil is maxing out you can get dragged over the front.

just spoke with my guy, and looking to get the surf wing added to the order

eddiemorgs
NT, 362 posts
4 Sep 2019 1:35PM
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FoS said..
Thanks everyone.
It looks like I'll go with a duotone setup maybe a little cheaper than axis and more available.

Foil = SPIRIT CARVE 950
Board = Free 5"0

Any comment appreciated
as mentioned special thanks to my comrades in size puet and kam
we should get pizza together


The Duotone carve is a great ride, super well balanced , quick and slow , a bit carvy ... good to learn on as well. Others mentioned would also be good setups, I just haven't ridden them.
Axis is getting good raps too

Dont be frightened to go shorter on the board.... Puetz is on a 4'10 board and doing it easy. He might have something to say on this now for someone of greater size.

As you progress ... and if you get a surf wing , you will find swing weight makes a massive difference to ability to turn. Hence the good guys now riding very short boards in surf
I ride a 4' jshapes and love it for carving and cruising about and riding swell and waves. ( no , I am not one of the good guys ) but it could be longer when going quick.
My other board is 155 and it feels like a tanker when I get back on it.

And yes , big boys can do it and the newer gear is much more resilient. Puetz worried over this for awhile and seems to be going well on his gear.

Ventilation on the bigger foils in stronger wind can be more of an issue ... just gotta slow down and keep that thing buried.

bigtone667
NSW, 1075 posts
4 Sep 2019 6:21PM
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eddiemorgs

Ventilation on the bigger foils in stronger wind can be more of an issue ... just gotta slow down and keep that thing buried.


Nah... you just need a smaller kite....

I have no issues on 2000cm2 wing in 30 knots on a 4.8m kite.

But it is slow.... max speed of 14/16 knots, but awesome for riding and carving in swell.

No right or wrong with this, just different experiences.....

I have gone 600 to 800 to 1000 to 1500 to 2000cm2. All sizes were good to ride. But the larger wings have enabled me to ride in 8 knots on increasingly smaller boards.

Important thing is to start.

eddiemorgs
NT, 362 posts
5 Sep 2019 11:41AM
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bigtone667 said..

eddiemorgs

Ventilation on the bigger foils in stronger wind can be more of an issue ... just gotta slow down and keep that thing buried.



Nah... you just need a smaller kite....

I have no issues on 2000cm2 wing in 30 knots on a 4.8m kite.

But it is slow.... max speed of 14/16 knots, but awesome for riding and carving in swell.

No right or wrong with this, just different experiences.....

I have gone 600 to 800 to 1000 to 1500 to 2000cm2. All sizes were good to ride. But the larger wings have enabled me to ride in 8 knots on increasingly smaller boards.

Important thing is to start.


Yep sure , thats more correct ... a smaller kite is a better way of dealing with it

I was out on a 5 m yesterday but not quite enough ... needed a bigger foil

FoS
TAS, 1632 posts
5 Sep 2019 12:14PM
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So had a go on a mates secret agent. An older cabrinah. Was fun and after about half HR started little pops. Definately sketchy wind from 5 to 35 knots with a 12m switchblade.

Order updated to duo surf. Locked in delivery should have started this morning from Sydney. Maybe next weekend.

Thanks everyone for your comments and help

Kamikuza
QLD, 4308 posts
5 Sep 2019 8:18PM
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FoS said..
So had a go on a mates secret agent. An older cabrinah. Was fun and after about half HR started little pops. Definately sketchy wind from 5 to 35 knots with a 12m switchblade.

Order updated to duo surf. Locked in delivery should have started this morning from Sydney. Maybe next weekend.

Thanks everyone for your comments and help


Double Agent wasn't a great design, but was actually pretty good in waves because it ran into a top speed wall and just couldn't be budged, no matter how much power you had in the kite and how much power the wave tried to add.

Unlike my Axis, which just kept going faster and faster cos I just kept catching waves in to the beach without paying much attention to how fast I was going. Oh look there's the beach...

MidTide
QLD, 10 posts
6 Sep 2019 11:34AM
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use a JShapes Cruzer wing , 70cm Mast with Tuttle plate adaptor and fit this to a surf board with Tracks, you won't go wrong. Minimal sharp edges and a whole lot of fun.

myself and others are 100+ kgs in my area and we kite from 8 to 30 knots with this type of set up

BigZ
36 posts
6 Sep 2019 12:37PM
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I am 112kg and on KeNalu Iwa 580 foil and custom 4'x19" foil board. Never had any issues with the equipment despite foiling in brutal onshore beach breaks. Thanks to foiling I have minimized my kite quiver to two kites only - 9m and 7m. Between the foil and my surfboards I cover 10 to 35 knots.

rongroen
WA, 61 posts
7 Sep 2019 10:51AM
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It'll be interesting to work out the difference in force exerted by a 75 kg foiler vs a 100kg foiler on the mast, and compare that to the difference between the force of a 9m and a 19m kite .
my guess is that the racers are putting far more strain on the wing/ mast that our extra 20 kgs would!

also 110 kg is hardly a reason to limit yourself to surf wings. A std set of wings generates enough
lift.

FoS
TAS, 1632 posts
7 Sep 2019 10:33PM
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rongroen said..
It'll be interesting to work out the difference in force exerted by a 75 kg foiler vs a 100kg foiler on the mast, and compare that to the difference between the force of a 9m and a 19m kite .
my guess is that the racers are putting far more strain on the wing/ mast that our extra 20 kgs would!

also 110 kg is hardly a reason to limit yourself to surf wings. A std set of wings generates enough
lift.


And add another factor, im 125 to 130 kgs, today was using a 12m switchblade.
Oh and mast length for the moment of force at the board to mast connection

FoS
TAS, 1632 posts
9 Sep 2019 12:39PM
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got another go on the dbl agent on Sat.
i think I know why I went so relatively well the first time.
I WENT REALLY SLOW - like barely enough to keep goin

Saturday I added some speed and really felt the foil provide lift.

high as a kite
SA, 1306 posts
9 Sep 2019 1:43PM
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FoS said..
got another go on the dbl agent on Sat.
i think I know why I went so relatively well the first time.
I WENT REALLY SLOW - like barely enough to keep goin

Saturday I added some speed and really felt the foil provide lift.


I've been on a double agent for two years and it does everything I want it to do.
They are half the price of other brands and to be honest I'm having just as much fun!!!!
One thing they can do is take is a hiding - I've smashed mine on reefs heaps of times.
Yeah looks worse for wear but still goes OK.

Duff15
VIC, 224 posts
9 Sep 2019 3:30PM
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Anyone foiled the Moses 873 with a
Kite? Worth while addition?



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"Big guys foiling setup" started by FoS