What can I say ?
Ive been done by dealerships ford charged me an extra $380 for a replacement secondary oil filter .
Unfortunately at the time I didn't know but my model has a bigger sump & no secondary filter.
I was just getting it serviced because of warranty and I bought my truck from there new .
I sort of expected a bit more .
I'm working as a builder & my philosophy is the job has to be perfect it's always got to pass the test of what I think of as the most anal customer anybody could ever have that's ever existed & would my wife be happy with it.
That is my litmus test
That keeps my customers happy & I'm always getting 4or 5 star ratings & constantly asked to do more work for customers .
Just in the next street I did a job & then had eight more just from referrals.
But I tell you right now there is more shonky customers than tradies out there .
Some people are scammers .
I don't know a single tradie who's working for themselves that hasn't been ripped off.
Select to expand quoteCrusoe said..
You can buy mini diamond holesaws that fits into you 4 inch grinder. They are able to cut small holes as well as move sideways through the tiles. May help with your tap issue.
I brought one from Bunnings to make a hole larger to install a power point where the home handyman (woman) didn't make the hole in the bathroom tile big enough, even though I marked out exactly what was required. Added nearly 2 hours onto the job.
Was just a few minutes with my dremel.
actionmax, yes, I can't believe the stories I hear about some customers. I've heard a couple of times from friends that are builders that the best customers are criminals. They have an understanding of what not paying can lead to.
Bedroom carpet was put in a few years ago. The previous one had bumps in it and I was hoping this tradie would do a better job but if anything it's worse.
The other one and this also caused me a 150 dollar set of six high quality spark plugs.
My dad took my Toyota Avalon car to be serviced. I gave him the plugs and left them on the passenger seat for them to change.
When the car was returned to me my dad said they were unable to change the plugs as they could not get access to them ( there's a cover over the engine )
I then asked him did you pick up the spark plugs. He said he forgot but will pick them up tomorrow.
When he returned the mechanic had given them to the office girl and she thought they were a old set and binned them.
Not wanting to get the office girl in trouble we left it at that.
I actually think they were acquired not binned.
Honest tradies are hard to come bye,But l must give the thumbs up to a electrician who replaced 3 fluros at my oldies place.l was out of town a few weeks back when l got call so l suggested either wait,or get someone out.found out to my surprise the gentlemen who installed the spares ones they had,didnt charge them.my mum offered a case of cans,he said l dont drink,so she put the cash in his pocket he threw it back.
Ive got a customer at the moment who had a f@ckef roof that he put an insurance claim in for that was knocked back because the roof is so old & stuffed . I think he stuffed it up putting skylight in ,it's a metal roof & he's dented the sheets.He admitted that right from the start so I never took any photos of it before I did any work
he now claims I've wreaked it putting guttering on but refuses to tell me his insurance company who has photos of the damage so I've replaced half of a roof just to try & get paid , the company I subby for tried to mediate & that was there solution I did that & now I've got to take him to court because he still won't pay .
I get abusing phone calls at 1,2,3,4 o'clock in the morning .
And I've got to take that & be polite so he's got no excuses for not paying me.
I suppose in the hope I will give up but there is no way I'm backing down this bloke is a total c@nt
Its now the principle of the matter .
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
Select to expand quoteShifu said..
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
So work at your place, with your materials, exposed others to asbestos, endangering their health, and you are angry with them.... rrrriiiigggghhhhttttt...
Select to expand quotePugwash said..Shifu said..
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
So work at your place, with your materials, exposed others to asbestos, endangering their health, and you are angry with them.... rrrriiiigggghhhhttttt...
I've never met a customer yet that's willing to pay the additional $1500 or so for its removal. It's always been the tradie that copped it or the owner does a dodgy.
Select to expand quoteactiomax said..
Ive got a customer at the moment who had a f@ckef roof that he put an insurance claim in for that was knocked back because the roof is so old & stuffed . I think he stuffed it up putting skylight in ,it's a metal roof & he's dented the sheets.He admitted that right from the start so I never took any photos of it before I did any work
he now claims I've wreaked it putting guttering on but refuses to tell me his insurance company who has photos of the damage so I've replaced half of a roof just to try & get paid , the company I subby for tried to mediate & that was there solution I did that & now I've got to take him to court because he still won't pay .
I get abusing phone calls at 1,2,3,4 o'clock in the morning .
And I've got to take that & be polite so he's got no excuses for not paying me.
I suppose in the hope I will give up but there is no way I'm backing down this bloke is a total c@nt
Its now the principle of the matter .
What's the address? 
Select to expand quotekato said..
I still have some clients that I've been building with for 20 yrs. Always nice to get that sort of endorsement of your work
You've been building with them for 20 years? No wonder they are okay with you, but maybe you should finish the job and invoice them 
Select to expand quoteactiomax said..
Ive got a customer at the moment who had a f@ckef roof that he put an insurance claim in for that was knocked back because the roof is so old & stuffed . I think he stuffed it up putting skylight in ,it's a metal roof & he's dented the sheets.He admitted that right from the start so I never took any photos of it before I did any work
he now claims I've wreaked it putting guttering on but refuses to tell me his insurance company who has photos of the damage so I've replaced half of a roof just to try & get paid , the company I subby for tried to mediate & that was there solution I did that & now I've got to take him to court because he still won't pay .
I get abusing phone calls at 1,2,3,4 o'clock in the morning .
And I've got to take that & be polite so he's got no excuses for not paying me.
I suppose in the hope I will give up but there is no way I'm backing down this bloke is a total c@nt
Its now the principle of the matter .
Wow! I guess it shows that there are people out there that don't believe in being honest and will rip anyone off to further themselves along. I don't get it myself. I believe in being fair, not screwing people down whenever I can.
Sometimes it doesn't work in my favor either.
I had a concrete truck turn up an hour, a whole hour, before the scheduled time, and then he starts to tell me that he will charge me waiting time because I told him he has to wait as I haven't finished the formwork. I had to call the office, and they agreed that they would not charge any waiting time and if he tried to, they would pay it.
His truck had problems and the engine died and he spent 30 minutes trying to get it started. He lifted his cab up and opened the doors and damaged the cladding on the side of the house, quite obviously from the door of his truck.
It still bugs me that I didn't make him pay for it. I let it slide because the house is not particularly pretty, but I think I should have held him accountable, only because he was trying to stick me with waiting time when he was an hour early.
I guess you have to live with yourself, so for me I guess I feel better not having to argue with an idiot about these things. It must annoy you if you deal with customers trying to rip you off often, but I hope it at least makes you feel better that not all of them are like that.
Select to expand quotePugwash said..Shifu said..
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
So work at your place, with your materials, exposed others to asbestos, endangering their health, and you are angry with them.... rrrriiiigggghhhhttttt...
If they were decent tradespeople they wouldn't have done it anyway. The customer may or may not know if its asbestos fibro or even what that means, so you shouldn't expect the tradies to just cut into it for their own health as well as the customer's.
For what its worth, is a difficult job, and in my case I just tore down entire sheets of fibro from the wall with tiles attached, just to reduce the amount of dust generated, but I can imagine just trying to cut out sections is going to be difficult and most people will want to use a fibro cutting disc, just because its easier, but generates a bucketload of dust.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Pugwash said..Shifu said..
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
So work at your place, with your materials, exposed others to asbestos, endangering their health, and you are angry with them.... rrrriiiigggghhhhttttt...
If they were decent tradespeople they wouldn't have done it anyway. The customer may or may not know if its asbestos fibro or even what that means, so you shouldn't expect the tradies to just cut into it for their own health as well as the customer's.
For what its worth, is a difficult job, and in my case I just tore down entire sheets of fibro from the wall with tiles attached, just to reduce the amount of dust generated, but I can imagine just trying to cut out sections is going to be difficult and most people will want to use a fibro cutting disc, just because its easier, but generates a bucketload of dust.
We didn't expect anything from the plumber beyond getting the taps fixed. We didn't know it was there - there are no other asbestos walls in the house and it was behind the shower tiles only. The rest of the bathroom is gyprock. If we had known we would have dealt with it properly. We hired the plumber in the expectation they know what they are doing - presumably they have seen a few showers before. He just dived in with the saw and did not stop.
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..
The other one and this also caused me a 150 dollar set of six high quality spark plugs.
My dad took my Toyota Avalon car to be serviced. I gave him the plugs and left them on the passenger seat for them to change.
When the car was returned to me my dad said they were unable to change the plugs as they could not get access to them ( there's a cover over the engine )
.
Yeah, they were just lazy. Most cars have covers over the engine these days and often coils over the top of the plugs. It makes little difference as the problem is if there is horrible access to get to it all, but I would expect an Avalon has enough room that it would be easy.
I once had something similar where I took a V8 commodore for a service, specifically to get the plugs changed. Instead, they changed the oil and told me when I arrived that 'it was too hot and difficult to change the plugs'. No kidding, this is why I brought it here. Real mechanics have gloves for this stuff (Nomex?) and they have the right tools to give them better access. I waited while they changed them.
If you have the same experience again, insist on them changing them and if things go wrong, insist that you get the plugs back. Its not your fault that they gave them to the receptionist and she threw them away. Even if they weren't lieing about where the plugs went, its still their responsiblility.
The Plumber would have known it would be there because it's always there. You don't have gyprock behind showers you have something water resistant.
I bet he's tried plenty of times to charge for the asbestos removing & cutting & had customers screaming to high heaven about getting ripped off .
So probably just doesn't bother .
Look at this fact for every person who dies at work 8 more die from work related contamination asbestos, silicosis ,
cancers from pcb contamination etc etc
yet a tradie has to complete for the work lowest quote .
People rip tradies off & don't care that it's killing them it's a nice society we got .
I personally would be happy if the most dangerous thing at my work was a stapler
Select to expand quotesaltiest1 said..
I've had very poor results from a lawyer and a couple of doctors that have just about killed me despite telling them of my anaphylactic issue.
Tradies I've used have always been recommended by other tradies. Never a problem but never used a random.
A lawyer lost my first house to a con artist. A doctor used scissors to cut my daughter where the industry standard is laser. Now I only use doctors on recommendations from other doctors that I already trust.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..Shifu said..
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
You do realise that under Australian law, that plumber, recognising asbestos must leave your job, wait for you to get a team out in Hazmat suits to partly demolish your wall, not cut, cutting asbestos is illegal now. And then all you need, is to rebuild the wall, and have it waterproofed. Then you can call the plumber back.
That must be an interesting task. Identifying asbestos in fibro would be pretty much impossible I would say. How do you know when the fibro was installed, and even if it was recent-ish, was it before asbestos was no longer used in fibro?
Want a test of your sample first? That's not cheap either.
Hopefully people do what I have done a lot in the past and assume it does contain asbestos, but what if it doesn't?
I have reclad my 1940s bathroom in villaboard, i.e. no asbestos, but if someone were to look at the house they would assume it does have asbestos as the external walls no doubt do.
i think a lot of trades treat fibro warily, but not necessarily avoiding it.
If the government here were serious about getting it removed properly, they wouldn't be charging a premium to dispose of it at landfills and subsidising it instead.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..psychojoe said..Shifu said..
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
You do realise that under Australian law, that plumber, recognising asbestos must leave your job, wait for you to get a team out in Hazmat suits to partly demolish your wall, not cut, cutting asbestos is illegal now. And then all you need, is to rebuild the wall, and have it waterproofed. Then you can call the plumber back.
That must be an interesting task. Identifying asbestos in fibro would be pretty much impossible I would say. How do you know when the fibro was installed, and even if it was recent-ish, was it before asbestos was no longer used in fibro?
Want a test of your sample first? That's not cheap either.
Hopefully people do what I have done a lot in the past and assume it does contain asbestos, but what if it doesn't?
I have reclad my 1940s bathroom in villaboard, i.e. no asbestos, but if someone were to look at the house they would assume it does have asbestos as the external walls no doubt do.
i think a lot of trades treat fibro warily, but not necessarily avoiding it.
If the government here were serious about getting it removed properly, they wouldn't be charging a premium to dispose of it at landfills and subsidising it instead.
Hmm, on a re-read of my post I see that it wasn't fair to Shifu so I've since deleted it.
My local tip takes asbestos free on weekends.
There's a few telltale signs of asbestos, including the finish, the sound, the trim used, the sizing, among others.
When you're around enough of it you can generally tell without the need for testing.
my daughter rang recently asking about her clutch plate. the noise she described meant a new one . her regular dealership service place told her she needed a new clutch kit fitting ($1800) and recommended fitting a thrust bearing kit as it would probably fail before too long.foe an extra $600. when she handed over her phone I asked the parts person to check the drawing as a clutch kit should have a thrust bearing as part of the kit, he says no .then I get daughter to take screen shot of diagram then read the part number back to the parts guy. he's very apologetic, and down goes the prices when I suggest to daughter on speakerphone that she get prices elsewhere as it all felt a bit shonky. she got the job done elsewhere
sparky that does all the electrickery stuff at my work is pretty good - keeps forgetting to bill us, and chips in big time for our christmas fund 
and another - the crew I work for have a big place in Shoalwater, driveway / carpark needed resurfacing.
the crew turned up with the all the machinery and did the prep - but when the bitumen arrived it was the wrong colour.
They arranged for a load of the correct stuff to be sent - and noticed the old couple across the road had a long steep and curving bitumen driveway that was potholed and breaking up.
Fixed it all the dodgy holey bits, and gave them a free driveway while waiting for our goo to arrive.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..FormulaNova said..psychojoe said..Shifu said..
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
You do realise that under Australian law, that plumber, recognising asbestos must leave your job, wait for you to get a team out in Hazmat suits to partly demolish your wall, not cut, cutting asbestos is illegal now. And then all you need, is to rebuild the wall, and have it waterproofed. Then you can call the plumber back.
That must be an interesting task. Identifying asbestos in fibro would be pretty much impossible I would say. How do you know when the fibro was installed, and even if it was recent-ish, was it before asbestos was no longer used in fibro?
Want a test of your sample first? That's not cheap either.
Hopefully people do what I have done a lot in the past and assume it does contain asbestos, but what if it doesn't?
I have reclad my 1940s bathroom in villaboard, i.e. no asbestos, but if someone were to look at the house they would assume it does have asbestos as the external walls no doubt do.
i think a lot of trades treat fibro warily, but not necessarily avoiding it.
If the government here were serious about getting it removed properly, they wouldn't be charging a premium to dispose of it at landfills and subsidising it instead.
Hmm, on a re-read of my post I see that it wasn't fair to Shifu so I've since deleted it.
My local tip takes asbestos free on weekends.
There's a few telltale signs of asbestos, including the finish, the sound, the trim used, the sizing, among others.
When you're around enough of it you can generally tell without the need for testing.
That's really appreciated!
Select to expand quoteactiomax said..
yet a tradie has to complete for the work lowest quote .
1. Margins in the building industry are ridiculously low. Typically to win work you need to be the cheapest which keeps driving prices lower.
2. For Tradies and subcontracting companies to make Gross Margin after quoting the cheapest price in a market where everyone buys at the same price from the same Chinese suppliers (importers) then the only two other places to create savings are labour costs and overheads. Overheads such as, rent, power, rates, insurance etc are all going up....
3. Meanwhile everyone is complaining of low to no wage growth. See point 2.
The only way to try to make a buck is to get in and get out as quickly as possible. Those who are familiar with the equilateral triangle that is project management know that time, cost and quality are directly impacted when the other is adjusted. In other words if you get a cheap price you are pretty much assured of a poor quality job.
Add to this the generally poor attitude of Australian workers (who aren't hungry yet) compared to how hard Asian labour works then you get where this is going.
If you want a quality job then you need to be using the higher quotes. Another tip is to be engaging with a business owner who is "on the tools" and doing the work himself rather than using staff to do the work.
This topic goes to the core problem with Australian business when it comes to manufacturing and construction - which I have been saying is dying a slow death.
^^ the inevitable joy of capitalism comrades!!
why are we scratching our heads and saying this is a problem, when it is part of the system and unavoidable until the system eats itself.
further to your points, i will add the other way to make a buck is to be a prestige brand or trader and target the upper echelons of society for work, at a premium price. It is counter intuitive, but they do seem willing to pay more for quality stuff (in general, plenty of stories of super rich f&*kers ripping off tradies and not paying their bills or bing c*&ts about it, but at least you can put your fair margin in on the original quote!).
I really feel for self employed tradies, lots out there, and going to get harder for them in coming years it feels like 
Select to expand quotemazdon said..
further to your points, i will add the other way to make a buck is to be a prestige brand or trader and target the upper echelons of society for work, at a premium price. It is counter intuitive, but they do seem willing to pay more for quality stuff (in general, plenty of stories of super rich f&*kers ripping off tradies and not paying their bills or bing c*&ts about it, but at least you can put your fair margin in on the original quote!).
I really feel for self employed tradies, lots out there, and going to get harder for them in coming years it feels like
I agree. A neighbour was working for a place that installed garage doors, but in the wealthier coastal parts of Sydney. The amount that these people were willing to pay was way above what you would expect. Sure, some will price check but most just want it done now.
Select to expand quoteShifu said..
Had plumbers around to replace taps and pipes in the shower. They had to cut a large section of shower wall out. Of course there was a fibro backer. Filled the bathroom and hallway with asbestos dust. I will never forgive them and I will never trust a tradesperson again.
Never forgive is one thing but never trust another tradesperson again fk working for you.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Two words trump all that:
Dealership mechanics.
Service advisers, not mechanics.
Lets face it, there are lots of tradies out there that aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, if I was smart I would have accepted the job I was offered when I was 18 to work at a bank, instead I got into the building trade, the only good thing about it is ive been able to build a couple of houses for myself, aswell as renos. You get to know what other tradies to use to help you build, and which ones to avoid. Mind you, if I did accept that bank job, I'd no doubt be an over paid exec by now and could just pay someone to do the hard work. It felt like I was killing myself today in the heat and humidity up and down ladders.
It all starts with the concreter. Get them a carton of beer and sling them some extra cash with a level in the other hand. they put a sloping slab down that's out of square because someone short changed them $50.
Next the chippys through a crock eyed frame up because the slab is not square and they are not payed enough to straighten it, this is where the mess begins because if you are not paid enough to do square plum work you are not paid enough to clean up....
time is money so if a trade doesn't get a clean run with all obstacles out of there way they will spend less time getting it right.
that code is followed by the roofers ,plasterers, tilers, painters, ect. All the way to a house that will look good from my place.
With some exemptions electricians and plumbers have to sign off on there work so if you don't pay them enough they walk away or switch your power off.
so to answer your question. NO!!
But the start of the problem is cheaply built brick veneer homes where the owner and builder have removed any profits and any ability to take pride in your work.
Select to expand quoteBlueMoon said..
Lets face it, there are lots of tradies out there that aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, if I was smart I would have accepted the job I was offered when I was 18 to work at a bank, instead I got into the building trade, the only good thing about it is ive been able to build a couple of houses for myself, aswell as renos. You get to know what other tradies to use to help you build, and which ones to avoid. Mind you, if I did accept that bank job, I'd no doubt be an over paid exec by now and could just pay someone to do the hard work. It felt like I was killing myself today in the heat and humidity up and down ladders.
Every one needs a job when they get out of jail.
Select to expand quoteBlueMoon said..
Lets face it, there are lots of tradies out there that aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, if I was smart I would have accepted the job I was offered when I was 18 to work at a bank, instead I got into the building trade, the only good thing about it is ive been able to build a couple of houses for myself, aswell as renos. You get to know what other tradies to use to help you build, and which ones to avoid. Mind you, if I did accept that bank job, I'd no doubt be an over paid exec by now and could just pay someone to do the hard work. It felt like I was killing myself today in the heat and humidity up and down ladders.
Don't believe it. Your bank job could have ended up with you being made redundant and with skills that you can't use in the job market. At least by having a trade you can work for yourself and probably do well if you are good.
I have seen something similar where you are so locked into a particular skillset that it can make getting a new job challenging.
